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Arrrr! Tuner screw broke...

S

Scotty2Hotty

Junior Member
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Aw man,  :doh:
Hey guys, I'm in desperate need for any ideas at all on how to fix this. So I just drilled the screw holes for my vintage Gotoh tuners, and as I was putting the first screw in it snapped off in the hole. I understand that I may have drilled the holes too small, but does anyone have any ideas on how to try and fix it?  :help:

I have no idea, and I wouldn't be surprised if you guys didn't either but you're my last hope
 
Bummer  :sad: has happened to others, don't panic !!
There are posts around here on that.

Got a pic, might help the situation. If we can see how it looks.

About those tuners ...  http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=11078.0

There is this type of thing  http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Routing_bits/Guitar_Screw_Rescue_Kit.html?actn=100101&xst=3&xsr=36076

If stuck for a fix, got a local music shop / guitar tech near ya ?

Someone else will chime in ....
 
You are seriously a legend, I would have posted earlier but I got dad to help me drill it out - engineer and all.
Here's a before and after shot, it's a bit hard to see the screw in the first pic. Anyway, it's out now, gonna get some different screws.

:occasion14:
 

Attachments

The StewMac tool Updown pointed out is your best bet. Be aware that you'll end up with a hole larger than you started with, so you'll have to plug it with some dowel and re-drill.

Guitar/bass necks are always made of hardwood, which can be pretty unforgiving. It generally won't compress much, if at all. Exceptions would be Balsa and to some extent,  Mahogany. So, if the pilot hole is too small, you're almost certainly going to snap the head off any screw you try running in, particularly small ones. They're not much more than a piece of steel wire with threads in the best case, and sometimes are just die-cast, so they won't take much torque at all.

What you have to do is lubricate the screw before you run it in. The best thing to use is beeswax, but in the absence of that, even a crayon will work. Some people use candles, or paraffin. Others use soap, but I'd avoid that. It often contains chemicals the wood won't appreciate. In any event, without lubrication the screw will often get too tight and you'll twist its little head off. No fun.

You should also be aware that unless you're using junk tuners like Klusons (or their pretenders), the screw is an anti-rotation device, not a fastener. So, the screw only has to be snug, not fixed in concrete. Be sure you're drilling the appropriate-sized hole. Drill bits are cheaper than necks; get the right one. Don't screw around, no matter how impatient you are.
 
I used to think that the pilot hole size for a wood screw should be the screws minor diameter.

Nada.

The threads displace wood.... which would love to expand into some place...

A pilot hole very slightly larger than the minor diameter is called for.  Go about 1/3 the way to the major diameter.

Picking numbers from a hat - if the minor diameter is about .085 and the major diameter is about .105 thats about .020 of thread (in total, both sides of the hole).  Thread depth is about .010  Try a drill close to .091 or so. 

A lot of folks under-drill the pilot holes, thinking the screw will "cut" into the wood.  Thats not the case at all.  You can get by with a much larger hole than you might think.
 
I agree, CB - 'specially where tuning machine screws are involved.  The screw's just there as a stop, not as an anchor you have to torque down.  The nut on the tuning machine is doing the job of anchoring the tuner to the neck - the screw is just keeping it from twisting in the hole.
 
I refer to this chart if I am ever in doubt :dontknow:
However, regardless of what this chart tells you, I always, and I mean always, lube the screw with wax...

ScrewPilotHoles_zpsbcdf2ca9.png


:rock-on:
 
I have used the proper size bit, used lube and still taken the head off of screws.  Even with the tiny #0 phillips screwdriver.  They just are not very tough screws, and some of the exotics seem to like to bind up more than others, as =CB= mentioned.  It is best to get the proper sized bit, lube up the hole, and start the screw after you drill the hole. (ahh the innuendo...)  In about 1/2 of a turn you'll know if you should use a bigger bit.
Patrick
 
Thanks a lot for your help guys. I'm down a screw anyway now, so I'm just gonna go grab some steel ones.
I will make use of all of your advise and charts on diameters and such, but it's gonna take some converting since Australia doesn't use the imperial system. But that doesn't matter, it's easy enough to convert.
Thanks a lot, I knew you guys could help  :icon_thumright:
 
Updown said:
Bummer  :sad: has happened to others, don't panic !!
There are posts around here on that.

Got a pic, might help the situation. If we can see how it looks.

About those tuners ...  http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=11078.0

There is this type of thing  http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Routing_bits/Guitar_Screw_Rescue_Kit.html?actn=100101&xst=3&xsr=36076

If stuck for a fix, got a local music shop / guitar tech near ya ?

Someone else will chime in ....
Click to expand...

I had a broken screw in the peghead before. IIRC, I got a screw extractor drill bit for $8 at woodcraft and that was all I needed. It was wonderful, crazy easy. It leaves a big chunk missing in your head, though. I'll probably be painting the pegface to cover it up.
 
Many, many, many People Who Know About Such Stuff have decried the quality of the steel going into things like "cheap screws" for some time now, it just might have something to do with Chinese prison farm labor "steel" plants just digging stuff out of the ground and if it melts, it's steel, if it don't, it's food.... People who build things like race cars and $ 4.7 million $$$ supercars spec out "screws" and "bolts" pretty carefully, and you can too. When you get your tuners, pickup rings and such in the mail immediately throw out all the so-called "screws" (so you're not even tempted) then find the weird dusty dark old hardware store with the weird dusty old clerks and rows and rows of stainless steel screws. About 1.29c worth of Sure Cure-U.

There are also those who say "Drill a bigger HOLE, you're a dumb shit!"

And more than one thing can be true at once.

Throw out your potmetal screwdrivers too, there's a ruthless, multiplicative symbiosis dedicated to fukling up YOUR GUITAR working there. If "metal" is shiny on top and gray underneath when you scratch it, pity the poor Chinaman. Find a few, real steel, #0 and #1 Phillips-head screwdrivers too, it's easier than it used to be.

VROOM VROOM VROOM

Lamborghini-Veneno-internet_zps3f72dc80.jpg


Me & Daddy off to the supermart for a can of catfood! toodles....
 
Just to add to StubHead's comments ....
Don't go on the new Titanic II .... it's gunna be made in China  :doh:
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10263416.New_Titanic_II_liner_will_be_so_successful_a_THIRD_Titanic_may_be_built_says_magnate/
 
You're quite right, I remember hearing about this guy. You would think that someone with money like that could at least give some to charity
Heck, he could just build a REALLY good guitar  :laughing7:
 
Patrick from Davis said:
I have used the proper size bit, used lube and still taken the head off of screws.  Even with the tiny #0 phillips screwdriver.  They just are not very tough screws, and some of the exotics seem to like to bind up more than others, as =CB= mentioned.  It is best to get the proper sized bit, lube up the hole, and start the screw after you drill the hole. (ahh the innuendo...)  In about 1/2 of a turn you'll know if you should use a bigger bit.
Patrick
Click to expand...

The harder the wood, the bigger the pilot hole has to be.  Remember - you're displacing wood into the minor diameter of the screw while its major diameter digs into the material.  For really hard woods, you can probably get by with only .005 or so total engagement of the screw into the wood, which will result in about .010 "grab".

At this point - number drills, and a good set of calipers help the situtation
 
Jumble Jumble said:
I really prefer using tuners with a locating pin! Not because of this problem though - I just like the clean look.
Click to expand...
+100000    :icon_thumright:

Same here ....
 
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