Anyone ever do a "Flake" finish

[GUNSNGUITARS]

I have looked through the threads on here but haven't been able to get a answer to a question I have. I am looking for a Flake finish on the next guitar i should have done next week. Is it possible to mix a Metallic flake in with the Laquers.  Do you do your color coats and then add the flakes to your Clear??  Any special tip needed??  Can't find much about this type of finishing anywhere. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Tonar8352]

I have shot metallic powders but not flake.  I know Douglas & Sturgess in Oakland has flake and Artie was real helpful in getting me some powder.  He also sent me a catalogue of flake that they have.  The phone number is 510-235-8411.  Web address is  http://www.artstuf.com/ .  I don’t know if Artie is still around but they should able to help you out.

 

[jackthehack]

You might try researching it from custom car painting angle. Once you've thoroughly filled/sealed your body you should be able to apply metalflake automotive paint products. After all, all the Fender "car colors" from the surf era had Dupont automotive paint used for color coats topped by nitro lacquer.

You may need to make your filler/sealer coat choices based on type of automotive finish used.

There was a thread on this subject that had a couple of links to some specific products, but I can't find it, may have been on the old board.

 

[dmraco]

I have shot flakes on motorcycles before and the process it not that different. 

There are many things to consider, base color, size of flake, color of flake, tint, etc. 

For the most part the flake is suspended in CLEAR and applied.  You usually apply 3-5 coats depending on the amount of flake you desire.  When you achieve the finish you want, it must be CLEARED again, this time with no flake.  The reason for that is flake adds texture and will not be smooth.  Also, you want to have thickness there so you do not sand in to the flakes when polishing. 

I have also shot flakes in a CANDY before.  This gives the flakes a 3-D effect since each layer of flake has a different level of candy.  Again, this must be cleared.

I would suggest going to an Automotive paint store and looking thru the House Of KOLOR book.  The possabilities are endless.  Pick somethjing close to what you want and PRACTICE! 

Here are two tanks I did..sorry for back pics.
One was a white base, with GOLD metal flake suspended in red candy then cleared
the second is a black base with GOLD candy then cleared.

 

[GUNSNGUITARS]

Thanks much for the advice guys.  Awesome Tanks!!!  If I go with Automotive Finishes, do you have to be careful with what you use for clear coats??  I'll call Arite later and also stop down to Napa to see what they have.

 

[dmraco]

You should be fine with automotive stuff.  Just make sure you are ising the correct primers.

FYI...be prepared to spend $300+ on the supplies.  It is VERY expensive even for quarts.  If you do not already have the guitar, it would be cheaper to have Warmoth do it.

 

[GUNSNGUITARS]

Hey guys
I did a little more research and I thought I'd let you know what I found out. As far as finishing schedules, drmraco nailed it.  You must suspend the flakes on the color coat, then clear coat over it.  From everyone I've talked to that sells the House of Kolor Flakes, they didn't see a problem mixing these flakes with the Nitro Laquer. So I'm going to try it. 

Dmraco, I'm having a hard time deciding what color of flakes to get. My son and I (9 year old upstairs trying to play Crazy Train right now) picked this particular guitar finish out. http://www.warmoth.com/showcase/sc_guitar_bodies.cfm?type=guitar&start=1&itemNumber=PS2886&menuItem=1&subMenuItem=0&subMenuItem2=0&finish_filter=132

I think I need a Silver/Blue Flake, but I'm not sure.  From what I read you mix the flakes 4oz to 1 quart.  I am getting the micro flakes, so I should beable to shoot them through my normal 1.4mm tip according the chart at HOK.

 

[dmraco]

Hey guys
I did a little more research and I thought I'd let you know what I found out. As far as finishing schedules, drmraco nailed it.  You must suspend the flakes on the color coat, then clear coat over it.  From everyone I've talked to that sells the House of Kolor Flakes, they didn't see a problem mixing these flakes with the Nitro Laquer. So I'm going to try it. 

Dmraco, I'm having a hard time deciding what color of flakes to get. My son and I (9 year old upstairs trying to play Crazy Train right now) picked this particular guitar finish out. http://www.warmoth.com/showcase/sc_guitar_bodies.cfm?type=guitar&start=1&itemNumber=PS2886&menuItem=1&subMenuItem=0&subMenuItem2=0&finish_filter=132

I think I need a Silver/Blue Flake, but I'm not sure.  From what I read you mix the flakes 4oz to 1 quart.  I am getting the micro flakes, so I should beable to shoot them through my normal 1.4mm tip according the chart at HOK.

That looks like silver over a dark blue, or possibly some blue candy over top too.  I dark blue base and silver flake sould give you close to that.    The Micro flake is great.  I used a HVLP gun and always took out the small screen filter that is between the paint canister and the gun because it traps too much flake.

When mixing...1 qt will go a long way!!!!  for the HOK clears I think it is a 2:1:1 ratio with 2 parts clear:1 part reducer:1 part catalyst.  I always mixed by  the .oz. and mixed 12 oz at a time because it goes a long way.  6 oz clear, 3 oz reducer, and 3 oz caralyst.  I would then use 1-2 Tsp of flake.  Paint sample, you can always add more...you cannot take it out!  Flake builds with every coat so the 1st coat always looks thin.  And remember 3-4 coats is all that is recommended for adheason purposed.

ALSO...remember to stir the flake mixture between coats because the flakes tend to settle.

One other tip is when you are coating, have somthing there to spray as you paint the guitar.  you can use this to test the tackyness/flash time for the paint.  you want it to be sticky but not to pull away (think of gum stuck to your finger) when it is touched.

GOOD luck and make sure you wear a good mask...the catalyst is TOXIC!!

 

[GUNSNGUITARS]

Here we go guys... crap camera but all I have left is the flow coats. Thanks Dave and everyone for the info.  This wound up being  the final info.
1. 2 Behlen Vinyl Sealer coats
2. 2 color Coats of BLACK Base
3. 1 Clear Coat (Level Sand)
4. 2 Coats of Clear with Flakes( .25oz of Cobalt Blue Micro Flakes from www.Kustomshop.com mixed with 8oz. of Laquer)
5. 3 Clear Coats
6. Level Sand
7. 3 Clear Coats
8 Level Sand
9. 2 Flow Coats (Behlen String Laquer and Thinner 50/50 mix)

 

[Nando Vallart]

Looking good! :glasses9:

 

[DangerousR6]

Here we go guys... crap camera but all I have left is the flow coats. Thanks Dave and everyone for the info.  This wound up being  the final info.
1. 2 Behlen Vinyl Sealer coats
2. 2 color Coats of BLACK Base
3. 1 Clear Coat (Level Sand)
4. 2 Coats of Clear with Flakes( .25oz of Cobalt Blue Micro Flakes from www.Kustomshop.com mixed with 8oz. of Laquer)
5. 3 Clear Coats
6. Level Sand
7. 3 Clear Coats
8 Level Sand
9. 2 Flow Coats (Behlen String Laquer and Thinner 50/50 mix)

You're right, crappy phone camera, that sum bisch is blurred like a crazy.... :sad:

 

[ByteFrenzy]

Kodak Easyshare C315...that's no cameraphone. This is why I prefer to do a resize of my pics before posting them, partly so they will fit better on an average computer screen, but also because that strips out the extra information (Exif data) that your camera wrote into it. Pics would probably be better if you took them outside in better light.

 

[DangerousR6]

Kodak Easyshare C315...that's no cameraphone. This is why I prefer to do a resize of my pics before posting them, partly so they will fit better on an average computer screen, but also because that strips out the extra information (Exif data) that your camera wrote into it. Pics would probably be better if you took them outside in better light.

I agree, cell phone camera's tend to need better than average lighting....

 

[Orpheo]

Kodak Easyshare C315...that's no cameraphone. This is why I prefer to do a resize of my pics before posting them, partly so they will fit better on an average computer screen, but also because that strips out the extra information (Exif data) that your camera wrote into it. Pics would probably be better if you took them outside in better light.

I agree, cell phone camera's tend to need better than average lighting....

I dont have any problems with my nokia N95...

 

[DangerousR6]

Kodak Easyshare C315...that's no cameraphone. This is why I prefer to do a resize of my pics before posting them, partly so they will fit better on an average computer screen, but also because that strips out the extra information (Exif data) that your camera wrote into it. Pics would probably be better if you took them outside in better light.

I agree, cell phone camera's tend to need better than average lighting....

I dont have any problems with my nokia N95...

Whell shit man, that's because that phone has a friggin' 5 mega pixel camera......geeeeeeeeze... :doh:

 

[ByteFrenzy]

Unfortunately the number of pixels is a pretty hyped-up thing that may be related to the quality of pictures that a camera takes, but very often is not. Usually it is just a sales argument. A number of things must happen before a camera will take good pictures, and the number of pixels it uses at maximum resolution is just one of them - and not even the most important...

- the lens: even if your camera has 20 megapixels, if the lens is just a crappy single element fix-focus piece of sh1t, you won't take great pics.

- the sensor: even if the camera has a lot of pixels, that does not necccessarily go for the sensor as well. By a process called 'interpolation' you can improve the specifications of the camera without endangering the profit you make on it. As a side effect it should be noted that 'interpolation' does not do picture quality much good. Another issue with the sensor is wat they call noise: as the sensor strains to capture any light that could come through the worthless piece of plastic sitting in front of it, it starts to have random idle thoughts that condense into vague images. Much like the average forum member after an evening alone with a bottle of Drambuie.

- the image processor and its firmware: the picture coming from the sensor has to be manhandled into taking up residence on the memory card in the camera. This is usually done by converting the picture into a jpeg file. Jpegs have a nifty feature called 'lossy compression' which means you can make your file a lot smaller that theoretically required for storing all those pixels that were created by the interpolation process. It does this by insidiously making use of known defects of the human visual system. For instance, you can immediately tell the difference between very very white and just slightly less white, but you're a lot less clever at recognizing almost pitch black next to true complete darkness. So you can remove a lot of megabytes from each picture (so all those megapixels will fit on the wimpy SD card that came with this marvel of Far Eastern technology) and no one will ever notice (unless he tries to paintshop one of your pictures to lighten the shadows a little bit).

- the number of pixels: if you enlarge a picture a lot, or blow up just just a small corner, you will need a lot of pixels. You will also need a lot of pixels if your camera has a digital zoom. If it has a crappy one element fix focus excuse for a lens, it won't have a nice optical zoom. Because no zoom looks bad in the specs sheet, the manufacturer will say it has a digital zoom. A digital zoom is a way of letting the image processor work on just the few pixels in the very middle of the picture. But hey, wait a sec, didn't they just tell us we needed all those pixels to have a decent picture? And now they tell us it doesn't matter as soon as we want to pretend that we've got a zoom but in reality we don't?

Hmm... in retrospect this rant has gone slightly off topic...

 

[GUNSNGUITARS]

that pic was taken with a kodak and it looks about as worse as the Dallas Cowboy helmet spinning.  I'll try to get a better one on here with a different camera. How do I get a Packer helmet.

 

[DangerousR6]

that pic was taken with a kodak and it looks about as worse as the Dallas Cowboy helmet spinning.  I'll try to get a better one on here with a different camera. How do I get a Packer helmet.

Packers SUCK........

 

[GUNSNGUITARS]

Anyone see the Redskin/Cowboy game yesterday??  The only reason the Boys are 1/2 way good is because they have a gool ol Wisconsin boy piloting the offense. This Forum is starting to remind of a ESPN Blogging site.

 

[DangerousR6]

Anyone see the Redskin/Cowboy game yesterday??  The only reason the Boys are 1/2 way good is because they have a gool ol Wisconsin boy piloting the offense. This Forum is starting to remind of a ESPN Blogging site.

Meh, it's only 1 game..BTW, anybody see the last 2 games the packers lost.....Romo may be from Wis. but he ain't a packer..... :laughing11: