Angled headstock with tremolo bridge?

[RmB303]

Hi all.

I was 'almost' ready to finally order all the parts for my first Warmoth build
(as per http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=9693.msg129159#msg129159, but now using a Soloist body and Pau Ferro fretboard),
until I read something on here that got me worried.

I was going for an angled Strat head, and a Wilkinson VS-100 bridge, but I read somewhere that angled heads don't go well with tremolo bridges.

Is this true? Does anyone have experience of this?

I specifically want an angled headstock, as it'll be a left handed Warmoth Pro, and so won't have the side adjustment option for the truss-rod.
I'd like easy access to the truss-rod as I'm not too keen on the idea of having to take the neck off every time I adjust it. Especially considering I'd have to string it all up again just to measure the effect of the adjustment!
I'm also not that happy with string trees. Don't know why, but there you go.

I will be having the pre-installed Graphtech XL nut, so this may eliminate any string binding issues of an angled headstck.

If anyone has any experience (good or bad) of this combination - please let me know.

Thanks.

 

[Mor Paul]

If you don't want string trees, and a non-heel-adjusting truss rod...


Warmoth modern, straight headstock, staggered tuners should get you there too, I think.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Angled headstock not working with tremolos?  That news to me.  If it's a tuning stability issue, I'd add that tremolos don't work well with straight pegheads either.

 

[kdownes]

I have tried this same combo -- angled Strat headstock and a Wilkinson VS-100 tremolo -- and no, they did not work well together (or at least it didn't work for me).  I also wanted the angled headstock for the truss rod access, but it was impossible to keep the guitar in tune.  Even just a touch on the tremolo arm would get things stuck in the nut, and my tech was never able to make it work despite a variety of attempted fixes, including a graphite nut and even a roller nut.  When I was asking about my current VIP build a few months back, Rob at Warmoth also suggested avoiding the angled headstock/trem combo.  

My advice would be to go for a vintage modern neck, which has the truss adjustment in the head and can be done lefty-style if you want.  You get the single, vintage-style truss rod instead of the double expanding rod, but that's unlikely to be a detriment to you.  I finally gave up on my angled headstock neck and got a CBS-style vintage modern neck, and with Sperzels (which are staggered, as Max suggested, to avoid string trees) and a graphite nut, it stays in tune very well.

 

[tfarny]

I had a warmoth angled strat headstock & 6 hole trem for a while. It wouldn't stay in tune for anything, till I actually fixed the nut properly. Then it wouldn't go out of tune no matter what I did.
Somebody offer up an actual reason for these supposed incompatibilities once in a while, why doncha.

 

[phred]

PRS features angled headstocks with a similar trem. It's all in how well the nut is cut and well stretched strings.

Scott

 

[Cagey]

Just put an LSR nut and locking tuners on it. Strings will roll right over the nut, and there's no slack in the tuners without the excessive wind-up. You'll be able to drop the strings right to slack and they'll come back in tune. It's almost magical.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

The LSR can only go on a straight headstock.  Also, it is only for 1 11/16" nut width.

 

[RmB303]

Thanks for all the replies so far - but I'm still in a quandary over what to do though.  :icon_scratch:

I have considered the LSR nut, but that can't be put on an angled headstock.
I want an angled headstock so I can access the truss-rod without removing the neck - which will be left-handed, so the side access won't apply.
I also liked the idea of the Warmoth Pro double truss-rod, as it seems like it'd be more stable, have slightly better sustain, and is less likely to eventually warp the neck. (Are all these true?)

Which tuners are the 'Sperzels'? Do Warmoth sell them?
I was going to go for the Schaller locking tuners. Are these staggered?

I was also going to get a pre-cut Graphite XL nut.
How well are the pre-cut ones cut?
Would they take into account an angled neck?
What year is it?
Who's the president?

Sorry for all the questions, but I really want to order my guitar parts soon, but I also really want it to be perfect  :-\



p.s. The previous post was made as I was typing this, so ignore the LSR point!

 

[dNA]

It's funny, I didn't realize til now that Warmoth will drill for Sperzel's but doesn't sell them.
They're very good stuff. A lot of people avoid them because they're noticeably heavier than others, but they're top knotch.
as far as i know schaller don't come in staggered sets

 

[tfarny]

Gentleman, I give you: Sperzels! http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Sperzel_Tuners.html

The staggered business is cool, though I used the lowest two on D and G, and a string tree for B and E, that worked a treat. I don't think you get enough angle without a tree. The mounting pin is a bit of a pain, but ugly efforts at drilling the pin hole will at least be hidden under the tuner body.

 

[kdownes]

I've had good luck with Sperzels without using string trees -- my strat with the Wilkinson trem stays in tune quite well.  As for the truss rod, the double-acting rod clearly has advantages, but my impression is that properly finished/sealed Warmoth necks rarely, if ever, warp as long as they're cared for and not abused, so I doubt warpage will be a problem for you.  I live in New England and we have humid summers and very dry winters, and my single truss rod strat neck stays surprisingly straight throughout the year.  As for sustain, etc, a lot of that is going to depend on the type of wood you're thinking about for your body and neck and your pickups as much and probably more than the truss rod.

You could have a pre-cut nut installed, but if your tech will have to manipulate it a lot to get it to work well with your trem, it might make more sense to have them cut and install the nut when you have the guitar set-up (were you planning to go to a tech for that or do it yourself?).  I had a pre-cut nut included in the neck for the build I'm finishing right now, and just eyeballing it, it looks pretty tall compared with my other guitars.  But this is the first time I've done that so I'm not certain how it will turn out, and the finishing, I'm discovering, is going to take a LONG time.  :icon_smile:

 

[Dan025]

as long as the strings dont fan out i think it'll be fine, ie an angled strat, explorer, arrow and jackson should be ok with proper nut filling

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

I want an angled headstock so I can access the truss-rod without removing the neck - which will be left-handed, so the side access won't apply.

The Vintage Modern neck construction allows for straight pegheads and truss rod adjustment at the peghead.

 

[bagman67]

I may be a little late to the dance, but here's my experience -

I had a Carvin bolt-neck strat copy for about 4 years.  I had it built with a a Wilky, a graphtech nut and Sperzels - and it never gave me a moment's pain.  Carvin's necks are all angled-headstock, although their headstock angle is 8.25 degrees as opposed to Warmoth's  13 degree tilt.  This could cause the strings to be more likely to bind at the nut due to the more severe angle.

Good luck -

bagman

 

[stubhead]

I really, really think you want to rank things in order of priorities.

1) TONE
2) Tuning
3) TONE
4) TONE
5) TONE
6) TONE
etc...

179) convenience

With a butt-end Warmoth, double truss rod, you're eventually going to be removing the neck to adjust it about once every two or three years, unless you're maniacal about alternating .008" - .038" strings sets with .013" - .056" sets on a regular basis (In which case you'll have to make two nuts and change them back and forth every time too). It may take a few rounds to get it settled in - but in fact, once I get it close I generally let a double-truss Warmoth neck go through a seasonal change before I mess with it again. But, I don't even have to do the seasonal change that's typical of older, primitive (re: Fender) necks, just tighten it a 1/8 turn every few years, or maybe when I do go all gonzo for a slide-only 13 - 56 BlastoMatic. It's just not a big issue, with the Warmoth double rods. Now, If you're going for a single rod specifically for tonal reasons, I'm still confused, because if you're that serious about tone a whammy bar is not helpful, unless you're specifically going for the three-slack-spring "twank." I would put some time into learning what goes into a really properly-cut nut, then think hard about what's important - Tuning? Convenience? Appearance?

(Q) Are you, at this point, such a great guitarist that your playing will be materially affected by the difference between .003" of relief and .010"?
(A)
Great Scott, you're a great guitarist.... :blob7: Better than I. :sad1:

 

[RmB303]

Thanks again for everyone's help.


Firstly: Tone really doesn't matter at all because this will be a purely MIDI guitar, and will have no magnetic pickups on it at all.  :icon_tongue:

Secondly: No, I'm really not such a great guitarist to be honest, but I will really have to try to eliminate all buzz, as piezo signal to MIDI converters can get quite confused by even a slight buzz that may be totally unnoticeable when going straight into an amp.

Thirdly: After using a straight headed Fender Strat for nearly 20 years, I've leant to absolutely hate removing the strings and neck to adjust the truss-rod, only to set everything up again, just to find it needs a slight more/less adjustment.


Will the angled headstock (with graphite/teflon nut) really be much worse for a tuning stability point of view than a straight headstock with a normal nut, and string trees?


I'm still agonising over this (hopefully final) decision over my new guitar, and it's hurting!!

 

[GratefullyRedd]

you have to take the neck off to adjust the truss rod on the warmoth pros?!?!?!?

 

[Cagey]

I have a Warmoth Pro neck, which has a straight headstock, but I put an LSR roller nut on it and locking tuners (Sperzels), with a Wilkinson tremolo bridge. No string trees, and no tuning issues whatsoever.

 

[RmB303]

you have to take the neck off to adjust the truss rod on the warmoth pros?!?!?!?

If it's a left-handed one, then yes.

You can't put the LSR nut on an angled headstock, which I'll have to have if I want (and I think I do) access to the truss-rod from the headstock for a Warmoth Pro neck.


Why do Warmoth have to offer so many damned choices?