A Floyd Rose with ball bearings instead of knife edges?

[t.coyle]

So I was reading up on different trems and reviews and stuff like that for when I have the dough to start my build and I had an Idea. I had seen the hipshot contour bridge that pivots on ball bearings instead of knife edges that can wear out and I wondered why they didnt make any version of a floyd like this. I did try a hipshot contour and I liked the smoothe feel of it but I wanted to go in the Floyd direction. Then I did some research and saw that there are at least 2 out there plus the kahler but the whole tuning issue with that thing kinda leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The other 2 that i found were Ibanez ZR and a Vigier Ball Bearing Floyd Rose. I read up on the ZR and its sustain block kinda seemed puny and the whole unit seemed like it wasnt made very well from the talk on different forums but it can be found on ebay. Now the Vigier Ball Bearing Floyd Rose is pretty much exactly what I imagined it to be. But them being the sneaky french buisinessmen that they are patented this Idea and will not sell them to anyone unless you buy a guitar from them, which is very expensive. So that shot that to crap.

Anyways I know that some people here are tinkerers that do machine shop type work. So my question is is that do you guys think that altering a normal floyd would be possible to pivot on ball bearings instead of knife edges? And if so has anyone here tried that?

A floyd that pivots on ball bearings would be what im looking for in terms of feel, plus the knife edges not wearing out is a plust. Its too bad that they put a patent on it.

Here are some links with info about the Vigier
http://www.armleg.com/funkymunkymusic/viewtopic.php?t=1398&sid=f3f6c36a06e14afd9b62aceca45cefbd&mforum=funkymunkymusic
http://www.vigierguitars.com/html/Description_US/Guitars/FloydUS.html

 

[AGWAN]

...Bearings wear out too...

 

[t.coyle]

hmm I guess I stand corrected, but dont they wear alot slower?

 

[Cagey]

Yes, they wear a lot slower. The thing to consider is whether or not you're applying a cure to a problem that doesn't really exist. The better bridges use hardened steel on those wear points, which don't get a great deal of stress. When's the last time you saw a genuine Wilkinson or Floyd Rose with worn out knife edges? It's not something people worry about. Trading that for ball bearings sounds good mechanically, but is it actually ever necessary in real life? If not, you're adding cost and complexity to something that would better served with simplification.

 

[AGWAN]

I'm just used to being a car mechanic. its hard not to think of bearings as fail points.

but honestly. a Tremolo moves like... a Quarter inch? at most?

and the Hub Assembly in my jeep. which holds up nearly 3 tons of metal... gace out at 176,000 Miles.

How many miles does a Guitar get in say... 20 years?

I agree with Cagey (Which generally makes sense, as he's most always right) I just can't see how that pivot gets enough wear in DECADES for either set up to matter.

 

[t.coyle]

Point taken about the ball bearings not being neccessary. I guess the only worn out knife edges ive seen are from floyds that were heavily used and had age to them not really any wilkinson or other types. Another part of it is I liked the feel of the hipshot, more speciffically the smootheness of it. I would just go with that bridge but I was wanting range of motion more like a recessed floyd. If the tuning issue with the kahler were fixed I would just go with that but thats kind of a deal breaker in a locking trem for me

 

[Paul-less]

What's the problem with the Kahler's tuning? Just use a Floyd locking nut, it should be a'ight.

 

[Dan025]

ibanez makes something like that but i dont think you can get it aftermarket.

and yes knife edges wear out but if those bearings get dirty you're in trouble, and if they are sealed the seal adds friction. i think bearings add unnecessary cost. and a frictionless pivot only fixxes one factor in a list of things that cause tuning problems on an imperfect tuning system. i dont believe when stretching a string or spring and allowing it to contract that it comes back to zero, i think with zero friction you will still have a tendancy to rest in a different position. and even if it rests in the same position it may be under a slightly different amount of tension. trem stabilizers are a better starting point, they alter the feel but give a zero return point and still allow movement in both directions without the annoyance of locking screws and such like on the tremelo-no or what ever that thing is called.

http://joe.emenaker.com/TremStabilizers/BackBoxAuction.html

^this is a link to a review on a tremolo stabilizer that aperas to be good quality. unfortunately the ebay link is down to buy it but you may still be able to find one somewhere.

 

[swarfrat]

If it weren't for the 110lbs of static pressure, a frictionless pivot (a torsion spring that balances somewhere in the middle of its range) would be way cool.

 

[t.coyle]

Oh the whole issue with the kahler is that when you do certain bends on some strings it will go out of tune slightly until you dive it all of the way down. Something to do with the tension on the cam*. If you look on youtube there are many videos about this and most of them are using the Floyd Nut. Also the kahler 2300's which are said to be the best kind(hand made here in America) are the ones that go out of tune the least with bends and and there are tricks to reduce the amount of detuning it but it never goes away 100%. Does anyone here have a floating floyd set up with an ESP arming adjuster or similar divice? Because I could either get a OFR with a brass big block and an ESP arming adjuster or a Kahler 2300 plus the extra for the special rout from warmoth and they would be around the same price since the whole ball bearing thing doesent seem practical.

 

[DangerousR6]

As Cagey said, the idea of ball bearings is moot. Cause if the base plate and the posts on the Floyd is made of quality "tool" steel, and hardened properly, the knive edges would be hard enough to the point you would never be able to distress it by hand in 3  lifetimes.  :icon_biggrin: