A different kind of switch, BUT...if it works....???

[ChrisMC]

I'm going to be doing a blower switch (bridge pickup, straight to output, bypassing all other controls) as part of the electronics on my Soloist build.  I have searched high and low and sideways for a BLACK, 4PDT, 12 lug, On/On mini toggle, and have come up null.  I could only find chrome (which I have; I bought a couple of them).

So I was browsing my Reverb.com feed the other day, and a possibility for an idea came to me.  I got to thinking, if the mini toggle is going to be chrome (which will be the only chrome thing on the whole guitar), and will clash with the rest anyway, why not put something in that is unique (I think?) and that functions just as well - a stomp button for an effects pedal? 

Bear with me, I'm just exploring the idea, I didn't say I planned on sticking it in my guitar (necessarily), but I'm wondering if anybody has ever tried this, or knows from the onset whether or not it will work. I'm not an electronics engineer, but...it seems to me that if it's 4 pole/12 lug, on/on....that if you click it once, it would engage the blower circuit, and if you click it again, it goes back to normal wiring...but I could very easily be missing something, and that's why I'm posting. 

I believe it's a 1/2" hole, and once drilled....that sucker is drilled....I don't know what else I'd put in a 1/2" hole, which is another reason for the research.  If this was a guitar with electronics on a pick guard....I'd probably just give it a try and see what happens, but alas...it is not.

My concern though is that the "stiffness" of the "click" with these mechanical type switches will be too hard to engage unless you really give it a good hard PRESS, and that concerns me for the laminated top cracking over time possibly.  I'm not into building pedals, but I do have a pretty elaborate pedalboard setup, so I know that over time, these mechanical switches "soften up" a little bit, but they're very stiff at first.  For that part of it I could hurry up and get one and keep it at my desk and keep clicking it all day at work to break it in, but it takes a LOT of clicks for it to start softening up. At least on the pedals I use (JHS, Wampler, MXR, Moog, Xotic, Mesa/Boogie, Earthquaker Devices, ISP Technologies, Keeley, etc.)

So....aside from trying to find out if it will even work or not, that's my other concern, is that having to thrash on it a bit to get it to engage, I'm concerned it might be bad for the lam-top (flame maple, by the way), and cracking it. 

Anyway...who has any thoughts on this?  Thanks!

 

[stratamania]

I would not recommend it. It is a footswitch and would not be workable inside a guitar.

 

[ChrisMC]

I would not recommend it. It is a footswitch and would not be workable inside a guitar.

Could you elaborate? Couldn’t it be wired the same way as a 12 lug/4pole/on-on toggle? It seems like the action of the switch is the only thing that’s different…instead of flicking a toggle, you press a button, but maybe not?

 

[stratamania]

I would not recommend it. It is a footswitch and would not be workable inside a guitar.

Could you elaborate? Couldn’t it be wired the same way as a 12 lug/4pole/on-on toggle? It seems like the action of the switch is the only thing that’s different…instead of flicking a toggle, you press a button, but maybe not?

Wiring wise it no doubt would work but as you mentioned it would take quite a bit to press it and may over time interfere with the integrity of the guitar structurally.

 

[mayfly]

Yep - that's a footswitch.  It's designed to be stomped on, with strong actuator springs to match.

It would take far to much hand force for you to use comfortably on a guitar.  Heck, I'd be worried that it might crack the pickguard at some point!

If you have a guitar pedal with a similar switch, give it a try by hand to get an idea of the force involved.

 

[ChrisMC]

Yep - that's a footswitch.  It's designed to be stomped on, with strong actuator springs to match.

It would take far to much hand force for you to use comfortably on a guitar.  Heck, I'd be worried that it might crack the pickguard at some point!

If you have a guitar pedal with a similar switch, give it a try by hand to get an idea of the force involved.

I know it's a foot switch LOL.  Yes, I have a few stomp switches laying around that I could push on (and have already pushed on them).  I definitely wouldn't be concerned about cracking a pick guard, unless said pick guard was 70 years old and made of bakelite.  The spring actuation isn't 'that' strong, but 1/4" thick laminated tops aren't used to having downward pressure like that put on them.  My Carbon Copy is about 12 years old now, and its switch is nice and worn (soft click).  I could possibly swap the switch in that.

Of course, many of the newer pedals are using switches that are relay switched, not mechanical, but I don't know how many lugs they have, or if they need constant power because of how they work (as I said, I'm not an engineer).  In the meantime, I'm still researching this.  I'll probably call Wampler and Earthquaker Devices (two great pedal companies, both more or less local to me, in the grand scheme) to see about how the newer switch type works.  If they DO have 12 lugs and don't require some sort of power going to them....I would totally do this.  It would be cool. 

Anyway...my board...it's been the same for about 2.5 years (that's a long time not to be swapping a single pedal); I swapped out pedals until I got it to where I wanted it.  Once there....I see no need to add or subtract anything to it, it's doing exactly what I need it to do.  (I don't mean to switch this to a pedal thread....but yes...I'm familiar with how a stomp switch feels.)

 

[Rick]

What about a doorbell button?

 

[ChrisMC]

What about a doorbell button?

That’s crazy!  :toothy10: Seriously though, that would definitely be unique and outside of the box, and although I haven’t been in the market for a doorbell button in a pretty long time (as in…ever), I can’t imagine I’d find any that were 12 lug and four pole since they’re designed to do one basic thing.

I did look a little bit outside guitar and pedal world, into the RC car/etc and computer market a little bit, but I didn’t really find anything there.

 

[Rick]

I’ve seen a button used as a kill switch and the only blower diagrams I know of are on the freeway website. A doorbell would be cool.  Oh well.

 

[ChrisMC]

I’ve seen a button used as a kill switch and the only blower diagrams I know of are on the freeway website. A doorbell would be cool.  Oh well.

I looked at a few doorbell buttons in the meantime, and although I only looked at three or four…they were all just a hot and a ground to go to the chime box or electronic box that plays the Stevie Wonder song or whatever song you have it set up to play.

I’m doing a super switch and coil splits on a push/pull as well (I FINALLY decided just what exactly it is I’m doing with the wiring! Yay!), so the 4 pole switch is necessary for the blower.

 

[swarfrat]

Any time you need weird n-pole, m-throw switches, you should probably start by justifying why it can't be a rotary switch before looking at other options.

I might be tempted to do a 4066 fancy schmancy thing, but afaik nobody sells a board to do it already.  I've always wanted to a do a capacitive switch under the pickguard. 

Sounds like something EVH would have done. Touch the screw by the selector switch to engage turbo! Tell the guitar magazines that you have a team of trained gerbils driving a 50hz generator to power your British built Marshall.

 

[ChrisMC]

Any time you need weird n-pole, m-throw switches, you should probably start by justifying why it can't be a rotary switch before looking at other options.

…because it’s a blower switch; it needs to be quick in/quick out.

I do like the capacitive idea and had thought about that (the Line 6 Helix family uses them and they’re great!), but I don’t even know where to start with implementing something like that, or what special considerations it would need. A rotary switch would be too slow to get in and out of for a blower switch IMO.

 

[stratamania]

You have two practical choices available the mini toggle 4PDT on-on switch or a Fender S1 switch and pot.

Unless you are John Suhr and have a push push type made by Digikey mounted to a custom PCB which are both in turn mounted to a modified super switch. The whole assembly is added to the guitar via the super switch mounting holes and the push push goes through a hole in the body cut by laser. He does not offer these as aftermarket parts.

 

[amon]

[quote author=ChrisMC link]
BLACK, 4PDT, 12 lug, On/On mini toggle, and have come up null.  I could only find chrome (which I have; I bought a couple of them).[/quote]
Walmart sells one with a black rubber "boot" that screws on top.  Four bucks.

 

[Logrinn]

Why can’t a 2dpdt be used?

For instance like this;

 

[ChrisMC]

Why can’t a 2dpdt be used?

For instance like this;

That’s a great question, and one that I was asking a week or two ago. My wiring is a little crazy, and it has something to do with the coil splits, so it needs to be a 4 pole. I don’t know. Somebody who knows how and why guitar circuits do and don’t work would have to explain it, I just know that a 2 pole isn’t enough for what I’ll be doing.

 

[ChrisMC]

[quote author=ChrisMC link]
BLACK, 4PDT, 12 lug, On/On mini toggle, and have come up null.  I could only find chrome (which I have; I bought a couple of them).

Walmart sells one with a black rubber "boot" that screws on top.  Four bucks.
[/quote]

Yeah, the ones I purchased came with the rubber screw on boots. I don’t like the look, but may use them. Walmart sells car engines too. They “sell” just about everything, or at least they’re acting as middle man for just about everything and facilitate the transaction. Kinda like Amazon, but nowhere near as streamlined or efficient.

 

[stratamania]

Why can’t a 2dpdt be used?

For instance like this;

Because unless you are only bypassing a single coil or humbucker without coil splits you need a 4PDT switch. You need another two poles for the series link wires such as the red and white wires on a humbucker using Seymour Duncan colour codes.

https://stratamania.wordpress.com/2014/12/03/4pdt-blower-switch-for-guitar/

 

[Logrinn]

Unless you’re wiring it like above by taking the signal after the selector switch (and after any split switches and whatnot) and thusly making any pickup a ”blower output pickup”.

 

[stratamania]

Unless you’re wiring it like above by taking the signal after the selector switch (and after any split switches and whatnot) and thusly making any pickup a ”blower output pickup”.

But then that is not the definition of a blower switch where the idea is for one of the pickups to bypass all other wiring and go straight to the output jack when engaged. It has to be before anything else as otherwise whatever comes before it will influence what the pickup does defeating it's purpose.

Here is a good example of the blower switch wiring being used. By the way he is using the wiring that I posted on my blog.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5Y7omb5Zdg
[/youtube]