1 5/8 Nut Width problem

[BrianVincent]

So I my new warmoth body and neck are together and I wondering about the 1 5/8 nut width.  It plays great EXCEPT the fact that the high E string slides off the fretboard way too easily.  Like if you were to try a pull off riff, if would sound like crap.  I have tried tighter spacing on the nut and it still persists.  Anyone else ever go through this? It's got me thinking I may need a new neck... :sad1:

 

[swarfrat]

I went with 1 11/16 on my neck, partly for this reason, but ... you just got to learn to not pull down on the 1st string It didn't make any difference. . A normally set up 1 11/16" is not really any better -that extra 1/16 is spread across all six strings.  In order to make a real difference you'd probably need to do an upside down Keith Richards or  cut a 1 3/4" nut as if it were a 1 5/8".

 

[Cagey]

It sounds more like a technique problem than a neck width issue, but I'd have to see the guitar up close to know for certain. If the nut is cut wrong, you could end up with the high E too close to the edge, but that's not a width issue.

I use 1 11/16" nut width necks, which only separates the strings about a blonde hair wider each than yours, and I don't have that problem. I've also played 1 5/8" nut width necks and not had the problem. So, for whatever that's worth...

 

[BrianVincent]

Thanks guys, yeah it just has me wondering if I should have gone with a different radius rather than the 9.5, maybe a compound radius 10"-16" .  Does that even fit on a strat body?

 

[Cagey]

Yes. The fretboard radius has nothing to do with the width. All my guitars except the acoustic have the 10"-16" compound radius, which includes Strats, Teles, Soloists, and VIPs. They also all have 1 11/16" nut widths, and are 2 3/16" wide at the heel.

 

[JCizzle]

Nice avatar.  :laughing3:

 

[-CB-]

Its a bridge problem, not a nut problem.

Given the same heel width, given the same bridge string spacing, a narrower nut would give you BETTER edge room.  Think of it this way, if your nut was three inches wide... would the strings hang off the edge of the neck?  Yes indeed they would.  Ok, go narrower... and narrower... you get the idea.

The taper of the neck's width is linear but not always truly parallel with strings, nut and bridge would need to be regulated to make that happen.

Try to arrange things for a more narrow bridge string spacing....

Strat hardtail bridges are notorious for tiny edge spacing.  Warmoth's narrow bridge is a great help in that regard.

 

[BrianVincent]

Its a bridge problem, not a nut problem.

Given the same heel width, given the same bridge string spacing, a narrower nut would give you BETTER edge room.  Think of it this way, if your nut was three inches wide... would the strings hang off the edge of the neck?  Yes indeed they would.  Ok, go narrower... and narrower... you get the idea.

The taper of the neck's width is linear but not always truly parallel with strings, nut and bridge would need to be regulated to make that happen.

Try to arrange things for a more narrow bridge string spacing....
Thanks CB, the bridge spacing is the narrowest it can go...

Strat hardtail bridges are notorious for tiny edge spacing.  Warmoth's narrow bridge is a great help in that regard.

 

[ezas]

Its a bridge problem, not a nut problem.

Given the same heel width, given the same bridge string spacing, a narrower nut would give you BETTER edge room.  Think of it this way, if your nut was three inches wide... would the strings hang off the edge of the neck?  Yes indeed they would.  Ok, go narrower... and narrower... you get the idea.

The taper of the neck's width is linear but not always truly parallel with strings, nut and bridge would need to be regulated to make that happen.

Try to arrange things for a more narrow bridge string spacing....

Strat hardtail bridges are notorious for tiny edge spacing.  Warmoth's narrow bridge is a great help in that regard.

According to Warmoth the Fender Standard flatmount is even narrower at 2 1/16 vs 2 1/8 for the Narrow spaced.

 

[jackthehack]

What gauge strings do you use? If you got a nut installed by Warmoth, they seem to be cut for .009/.010 1st string; that's great for me, but I've had to do some filing on the factory nuts when setting up a neck for somebody else that uses heavier gauge strings.

Also, you don't say have type of neck you're using. If it's a Strat/Tele Fender type neck and you play/bend hard, you may need to install a string retainer on the 1st/2nd strings to keep the 1st string in the slot; there's a reason why Fenders come that way from the factory...

 

[Cagey]

Also, you don't say have type of neck you're using. If it's a Strat/Tele Fender type neck and you play/bend hard, you may need to install a string retainer on the 1st/2nd strings to keep the 1st string in the slot; there's a reason why Fenders come that way from the factory...

Right, and the reason is they don't have (or won't take) the time in a production environment to cut a nut properly. With a good nut, there's no reason to have string trees. They're just band-aids. Some will argue that they assist in vibration transfer, help the tone, etc., etc., but it's all just horse puckey. Rationalization and justification for poor practice.

 

[-CB-]

Its a bridge problem, not a nut problem.

Given the same heel width, given the same bridge string spacing, a narrower nut would give you BETTER edge room.  Think of it this way, if your nut was three inches wide... would the strings hang off the edge of the neck?  Yes indeed they would.  Ok, go narrower... and narrower... you get the idea.

The taper of the neck's width is linear but not always truly parallel with strings, nut and bridge would need to be regulated to make that happen.

Try to arrange things for a more narrow bridge string spacing....

Strat hardtail bridges are notorious for tiny edge spacing.  Warmoth's narrow bridge is a great help in that regard.

According to Warmoth the Fender Standard flatmount is even narrower at 2 1/16 vs 2 1/8 for the Narrow spaced.

The ORIGINAL flat mount bridge - from Fender was about 2-4/16 inches.
Warmoth's "vintage" offering is about the same (very slightly narrower)
The Narrow spaced Warmoth is 2-2/16 inches, and similar to the new modern hardtail Fender bridge

The Tele bridge is around 2-1/8 inches for the vintage style... modern replacements vary just a little
The modern tele flat bridge is also 2-1/8, but replacements vary just a little.

By "vary a little" - could be as much as one or two millimeters total difference depending on where it was made.

 

[BrianVincent]

The neck is a warmoth pro vintage strat neck, Clapton V.  The saddles are spaced as narrowly as possible.

 

[-CB-]

measure string to string.... at the bridge, and report back!

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

The neck is a warmoth pro vintage strat neck.....

:icon_scratch:

They make 3 neck styles.
1.) Warmoth Pro
2.) Total Vintage
3.) Vintage Modern

 

[TBurst Std]

A few have it correct here, issue lies at the bridge, not the nut most likely.
2 1/16 at the bridge is what I use,
Std is 2 7/32

And thats string spacing, not mounting hole spacing.
If your mounting hole spacing is 2 7/32 and you want 2 1/16 string spacing, Callaham has a solution.

http://www.callahamguitars.com/partsstr.htm#bridges

Scroll down to 3rd pic and read.

 

[JCT]

I have the same exact problem.  No question it's a mismatch and I don't know how this escapes the Warmoth people.  It's not your playing or something you need to work around.  I have plenty of other guitars and they don't have this silly string spacing problem.  I've talked to Warmoth reps twice and they seem really skeptical.  The nut on mine measures 1 9/16 which I guess they're calling 1 5/8 coupled with the vintage bridge which is piece of junk because of the string spacing mismatch.  I asked the Warmoth rep about switching to a neck with the 1 11/16 nut width to see if that would help and he didn't think so.  I also talked to the people at Callaham custom parts and they have a vintage bridge with the smaller spacing (squier) which may be a solution but it's not cheap so that's why I thought I'd just replace the neck.  Anyway until I figure out a solution it's a piece of junk compared to my cheapest electric and it's totally unusable.  Ran out of time on this one so it's just hanging on the wall for now.  It looks cool but it's useless so far.  I guess I'll have to take it to a really good guitar tech to find out if a new bridge or new neck is the way to go but it's serious piss off!

I need to add that recently I bought a bunch of strat parts on ebay including a mix of MIM and American parts and effortlessly threw them together on a whim and it's ten times better than this dysfunctional Warmoth that I'm fighting with.  I threw strings on the mutt and it tuned it up with zero problems and plays great so it's not me.  Also don't listen to anyone telling you that you need to adjust your playing style or work around it out somehow because that's just some hack showing off.   

 

[TBurst Std]

It is not your neck. Its the bridge. Go with a StS bridge spacing of 2 1/16. The 2 7/32 StS bridge spacing is notorious for less than impeccable technique.

 

[Cagey]

Replacing the neck isn't going to help you. All their necks except the "super wide" are 2 3/16" wide at the heel. That means if you put a vintage spaced (2 7/32") bridge on the body the strings are going to be spaced too wide to be playable. The E strings will be too close to the edge. You need a modern spaced (2 1/16") bridge.

Shopping for Strat trems can be confusing. Some refer to "vintage" vs "modern" spacing, some refer to "USA" vs "import" spacing, some will call them "Vintage USA" spacing, and so on. The only way to know what you want and/or what you're ordering is to get out the caliper and measure the reality of your current bridge or your body's drill pattern.

The Callaham solution will work, but they do want a lotta money for them. Another choice would be the Vintage Tremolo for Mexican, Korean, Chinese made guitars from GFS. Here again, it's confusing because they call it a "vintage" tremolo, but it has the modern (narrower) spacing. There's also a dimensioned mechanical drawing of the thing on that page so you can check that everything will work for you.

Edit: If your guitar is drilled for a "vintage" spaced bridge, then the Calaham is the only part that will get you the proper mounting for that hole pattern but give you the "modern" string (saddle) spacing. See chart here - you want the V/N Strat Bridge Assembly Mexican Standard Block version.

 

[AirCap]

Are you sure the neck isn't bolted on crooked? Is there more space on the bass side than the treble?