Your thoughts - another which wood what wood thread

[TBurst Std]

Needing to get going on a build started a few years ago, but I am indecisive on the neck wood.

Body is a chambered mahogany VIP with a maple cap (beofre the price increase on carve tops - thats how old this is LOL). Pickups are going to be a TV Jones Classic and Classic +.
Going for a Duo Jet type build. Duo Jets are chambered mahogany maple capped, with a 24.6 neck out of mahogany with ebony board.

So going with a 24.75 conversion neck. Looking at either Rosewood/Ebony or Wenge/Ebony.
Which of those two do you think would be sonically most similar to mahogany/ebony?

Fire away

 

[Cagey]

I suspect you wouldn't notice a nickel's worth of tonal difference between those three woods used as neck meat, so the issue becomes more one of cost/aesthetics. The Mahogany is the least expensive wood, but requires a finish, making it possibly the 1st but more likely the 2nd most expensive. Rosewood costs the most, but doesn't require a finish and raw necks always feel great. Wenge will probably feel/play best, cost least, and doesn't need a finish. So, dig through the Showcase or play with the neck builder and go from there.

 

[TBurst Std]

I already know I am going raw, the question would be

Looking at either Rosewood/Ebony or Wenge/Ebony.

Which of those two combinations do you think would be sonically most similar to mahogany/ebony?

 

[Cagey]

I can't commit.

Rosewood and Mahogany have both proven to be pretty inconsistent woods in my experience. Sometimes Mahogany is kinda dead (what some might call "warm"), other times not so much. I don't have a great deal of experience with Rosewood as a neck meat, but judging by the 8,291,443 Rosewood fretboards I've seen/played, some are pretty wide open and some are pretty dense. Makes a bigger difference in tone/feel. I have an all Rosewood neck here that you'd swear are made of two entirely different species. The neck meat and the fretboard are wildly different.

I haven't dealt with a large number of Wenge necks, but the ones I've worked with so far all seem pretty similar. But, even if that's true, what does it mean if you're comparing it to something highly variable?

That's why I said earlier that I don't think you'll notice a nickel's worth of difference. Theoretically, they should all sound about the same. But, that's just generally speaking. Get a soft piece of Mahogany, any anything will sound good against it. Get a particularly dense piece of Rosewood, and it's going to be unusually bright. What do you compare, and when do you stop?

It's a crap shoot. Always has been. Sometimes you get lucky, other times not. So, drop back to the idea that any of the traditional hardwoods will generally work out well, and base your decision on aesthetics and price. What would you like it to look like and how much money have you got?

 

[keeper006]

I always find myself agreeing with Cagey, but for the sake of a simple answer that you're looking for, in my opinion I'd say go with the wenge. The open grain seems a tad warmer toward the mahog tone you want. Both of my rosewood necks are noticeably brighter when I've A/B'ed them with my wenge on the same body. As Cagey said, I've also found more difference in rosewood boards, but my all rosewood necks somehow seem more dense.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Is Rosewood one of the raw exotics that doesn't lend itself well to the angled scarf joint?  If so, that may eliminate one choice.

 

[Cagey]

I have one here, so it's at least not impossible. Plus, if you try and build one up in the builder, it'll let you. Be about $400+ by the time you put a nut and SS frets on it.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

I couldn't remember which ones weren't suitable.  I may have been thinking of goncalo alves.

 

[Creeping Death]

I have a Wenge/Ebony neck on my Warmoth soloist and I love it. Very smooth feeling, It is brighter than Mahogany which in my opinion is a good thing because I find mahogany to be a very dead wood like rosewood. They both seem to absorb the higher frequencies. So i would say most similar tone would be rosewood. Wenge is going to have more highs and more pronounced midrange which is a good thing because if you are playing guitar midrange is exactly what you are when you are playing in a band.

 

[Ddbltrbl]

It's a crap shoot. Always has been. Sometimes you get lucky, other times not. So, drop back to the idea that any of the traditional hardwoods will generally work out well, and base your decision on aesthetics and price. What would you like it to look like and how much money have you got?

Best advice I've heard in quite a while!!! :icon_thumright:

 

[hannaugh]

I'd choose based on feel.  A lot of people complain about rosewood being too waxy-feeling.  I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about wenge though.

 

[jackthehack]

Based on necks I've bought/installed/played I'd say that Rosewood would be closer to Mahogany; Wenge is definitely brighter sounding, more akin to using Maple.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

I agree with Jack, wenge has more of a mid forward sound.  I don't have a Rosewood, but I have a Bocote and a Goncalo.  They feel similar, flannel feeling and are a smoother sound.  The wenge has more mid bite and is a much slicker feeling wood.  If you polish it is, be very careful, it is greased lightning and heavy.  Easy to drop, or scare the poop out of you when you think you might drop it because you didn't grab it tight enough.  Personally I prefer wenge, it is a very versatile wood, that need very little care, and it very slick to play on.  But, this is my opinion.  I'd see if there was a shop with some high end bass brand around and try them to get an idea of what some of these exotics were like.
Patrick

 

[DustyCat]

Excuse me for hijacking this thread, but I figured that if I started one I'd get redirected  anyhow....

I was curious about a certain brand of pickup that claimed to be able to accurately transmit "fragile harmonics between 5-10k" so I contacted the company and they told me that mahogany is incapable of producing harmonics between those ranges....

==> So...not just a tonechart of brightness/warmness...Does anyone know which woods will produce harmonics in those ranges? Is there a more....standardized gauge of what harmonics will be produced by which woods?

 

[Cagey]

I can't imagine any wood ever being capable of producing harmonics in that range. What you really want to know is which woods aren't so aggressive about absorbing fundamental frequencies, which would prevent or reduce the string's ability to produce harmonics. Those would be the usual suspects - Maple, Canary, Ebony, etc. The ones identified as "bright" in the tone charts. Then, you need very stable mounting points so you'd want graphtech nuts and saddles, A bolted neckjoint rather than screwed or glued, and a high-mass hardtail bridge rather than a vibrato.

I have a Tele here that has a Mahogany body, Aframosia neck, Graphtech nut, bolted neck and brass hardtail bridge with Graphtech saddles...

...and I mean to tell you this thing is so lively it's spooky. Loudest, brightest electric I've heard in many years. If anything around here is capable of producing harmonics in the range you're talking about, this would be the one. But, I doubt it's really doing it.

The highest (fundamental) note on a guitar is only ~1.3KHz, so by the time you get into the 5KHz range, you're talking 4th order harmonics. Since they're happening on the same string, they're substantially smaller. The pickup you're looking at may be capable of sensing those frequencies, but it's unlikely they'd be audible. The amplitude ratio would be so wide that the 4th order and up are essentially just lost. So, it's likely the manufacturer of that pickup is making claims that are true in the literal sense in order to sound like they have some trick design, but meaningless in any practical sense.

 

[drewfx]

The highest (fundamental) note on a guitar is only ~1.3KHz, so by the time you get into the 5KHz range, you're talking 4th order harmonics. Since they're happening on the same string, they're substantially smaller. The pickup you're looking at may be capable of sensing those frequencies, but it's unlikely they'd be audible. The amplitude ratio would be so wide that the 4th order and up are essentially just lost.

I think you're overstating the relative inaudibility of the harmonics a bit here. Quieter yes, but inaudible no.

 

[Cagey]

I probably wasn't clear. Not all of the harmonics get lost, but the each time you go up an order, you lose some amplitude in that order. So, there's the fundamental frequency, then 1st order harmonic is easy to hear, even on acoustics. 2nd order, not so much. 3rd order, even less. 4th order, who knows? I will admit that it's a bit beyond me - it's been a lotta years since I've had to even think about the math involved, let alone do it.

 

[Ddbltrbl]

I am probably completely messed up, but I have always felt that at least for electric guitars the body an neck woods contribution to the tone has more to do with the sustain they give at an individual frequency, which maybe different than the actual resonance at that frequency (perhaps even inverse to it). I would really like to see a spectrum analysis of the resonance of the various woods we use for comparison.
I agree that the dense, hard woods are generally brighter sounding, but I have found that is not always true. I have an old strat with a hard ash body that is dense and heavy as iron, but the tone is not anywhere near as bright as I would have expected, even with a rock-hard maple neck. The most reliable combination I've found for good tone and sustain is to use an alder body with any of the harder exotic necks (Pau Ferro, Ebony, Canary, Wenge). But, I have a Rosewood neck in a similar setup that is surprisingly bright as well. And the best tone of any guitar I have is a from a Black Korina body and neck with a Rosewood fretboard! So, the only thing I can say for certain is that there is obviously more to it than just the woods! :dontknow:

 

[greywolf]

I'd vote the rosewood /ebony .    I recently built a duo jet inspired all walnut semi hollow with those pickups ,black walnut/ebony neck is plenty warm and still very snappy

 

[DustyCat]

I have a Tele here that has a Mahogany body, Aframosia neck, Graphtech nut, bolted neck and brass hardtail bridge with Graphtech saddles...

...and I mean to tell you this thing is so lively it's spooky. Loudest, brightest electric I've heard in many years. If anything around here is capable of producing harmonics in the range you're talking about, this would be the one. But, I doubt it's really doing it.

Sounds like my kind of axe!
I think I'm gonna go wenge core on my next neck.
Thanks!  :icon_thumright: