Wood Mounting Humbuckers?

[Steve_Karl]

So it appears that getting a wood route hole from warmoth, one could go with rings, later on, if they wanted, just by shortening the screws a bit?

 

[bagman67]

How;s this?

Why are the routes so HUGE?

Probably because the base plate of the pickup is bigger than the coils, and the gap is typically covered by bezels -  and because Godin probably found it cheaper to source standard sized HB"s and rout for them rather than to go full-custom close-fitting routs like Tom Anderson or Suhr for example.  Godin's a mass-produced instrument manufacturer, and a few pennies per component here and there adds up when you're talking tens of thousands of instruments.

 

[Cagey]

While direct mounting does little for your guitar's appearance or character/tone, beauty rings and suspended pickups do a lot for nearly nothing. But, it depends on what you want. Some guys like their engines and whatnot to show...

 

[rspst14]

Thanks...can I safely assume that the route will accomodate an F-spaced humbucker withe no problem?

 

[Strat Avenger]

My Soloist has body-mounted pickups, and there is no real tonal advantage.
I did it because I like the way it looks, and because I tend to gouge the corners of plastic pickup rings with my picking technique.
I used springs under the pickup for the bridge position, and foam under the neck-position pickup.

 

[Strat Avenger]

Thanks...can I safely assume that the route will accomodate an F-spaced humbucker withe no problem?

Yes. The route is quite large.

 

[crimson guitars]

I hate to weigh in and disagree with everyone but there is a tonal benefit.. at least according to Andy at Wizard pickups who makes most of the bespoke pickups we use at Crimson Guitars.. I had a rant at him one day about 'silly people believing that direct mounted pickups improve tone' as I really can't see how this would do this, when he blew me out of the water and said that in tests he had done there was a clear difference to the sound!!  I've given this a LOT of thought and the only real difference is that by bolting the pickup in to the wood you are effectively adding more density to the body.. we know taking density away in the form of tone-chambers changes the sound of your guitar so it stands to reason making the body (which of course is the bit that has most to do with vibrating and tone) more dense will also change the sound you create..  whether this is a 'better' sound or not is up to you!  We're starting to delve into the BIG discussion among guitar builders.. what effects tone more, the wood or the pickups?  I've wasted hours of time on that one!

 

[Steve_Karl]

Combine that with all pickups are slightly microphonic ... some more than others.
Pull up a vu meter and tap your pup with the tip of your pick.

 

[ptirman]

I hate to weigh in and disagree with everyone but there is a tonal benefit.. at least according to Andy at Wizard pickups who makes most of the bespoke pickups we use at Crimson Guitars.. I had a rant at him one day about 'silly people believing that direct mounted pickups improve tone' as I really can't see how this would do this, when he blew me out of the water and said that in tests he had done there was a clear difference to the sound!!  I've given this a LOT of thought and the only real difference is that by bolting the pickup in to the wood you are effectively adding more density to the body.. we know taking density away in the form of tone-chambers changes the sound of your guitar so it stands to reason making the body (which of course is the bit that has most to do with vibrating and tone) more dense will also change the sound you create..  whether this is a 'better' sound or not is up to you!  We're starting to delve into the BIG discussion among guitar builders.. what effects tone more, the wood or the pickups?  I've wasted hours of time on that one!

I, someone who knows not that much, think you are right. If the pickup is mounted straight onto the wood then any resonance from the pickup is transmitted through the mount. Rings would disperse in a different way. Pickup covers probably have an effect too?
My latest build:

 

[DangerousR6]

This is a cool looking body style, what is it?... :icon_scratch:

Looks sort of stratish, but with a twist...

 

[Cagey]

Looks like a VIP with a flat top and a forearm cutaway.

 

[DangerousR6]

Looks like a VIP with a flat top and a forearm cutaway.

Nah, VIP is rounded at the back end...This one looks like a combo of a strat and a jag... :dontknow:

 

[Strat Avenger]

I hate to weigh in and disagree with everyone but there is a tonal benefit.. at least according to Andy at Wizard pickups who makes most of the bespoke pickups we use at Crimson Guitars.. I had a rant at him one day about 'silly people believing that direct mounted pickups improve tone' as I really can't see how this would do this, when he blew me out of the water and said that in tests he had done there was a clear difference to the sound!!  I've given this a LOT of thought and the only real difference is that by bolting the pickup in to the wood you are effectively adding more density to the body.. we know taking density away in the form of tone-chambers changes the sound of your guitar so it stands to reason making the body (which of course is the bit that has most to do with vibrating and tone) more dense will also change the sound you create..  whether this is a 'better' sound or not is up to you!  We're starting to delve into the BIG discussion among guitar builders.. what effects tone more, the wood or the pickups?  I've wasted hours of time on that one!

'Sorry, but I have both types, and there's no tonal difference that you can actually hear.
Do you actually think that vibration does not transfer from pickup screws through a plastic mounting ring and through the 4 screws attaching it to the body?? It's all connected.  There are other aspects and components of the electric guitar that have a far greater impact on tone and sustain than a body-mounted pickup will.

 

[crimson guitars]

I hate to weigh in and disagree with everyone but there is a tonal benefit.. at least according to Andy at Wizard pickups who makes most of the bespoke pickups we use at Crimson Guitars.. I had a rant at him one day about 'silly people believing that direct mounted pickups improve tone' as I really can't see how this would do this, when he blew me out of the water and said that in tests he had done there was a clear difference to the sound!!  I've given this a LOT of thought and the only real difference is that by bolting the pickup in to the wood you are effectively adding more density to the body.. we know taking density away in the form of tone-chambers changes the sound of your guitar so it stands to reason making the body (which of course is the bit that has most to do with vibrating and tone) more dense will also change the sound you create..  whether this is a 'better' sound or not is up to you!  We're starting to delve into the BIG discussion among guitar builders.. what effects tone more, the wood or the pickups?  I've wasted hours of time on that one!

'Sorry, but I have both types, and there's no tonal difference that you can actually hear.
Do you actually think that vibration does not transfer from pickup screws through a plastic mounting ring and through the 4 screws attaching it to the body?? It's all connected.  There are other aspects and components of the electric guitar that have a far greater impact on tone and sustain than a body-mounted pickup will.

I absolutely agree that the difference is not massive but it is there, remember I was adamant that there was NO difference until my pickup maker told me different.. the more componants between pieces the less vibration is transfered and springs obviously dissipate much more than a few few screws into the body..  At Crimson Guitars, when we build guitars with direct mounted pickups, we screw them in to brass threaded inserts fitted into the pickup cavity and use two massive inch wide springs.. it works!

 

[peter.k]

mouse pad material is the best shim material I have found. It can be built up in layers as required, and is dense enough to give a firm resistance when the pickup is screwed down onto it. All Gretsch Filtertron pickups are directly mounted, and this is what I used to alter the pickup height on my Country Gentleman..

 

[ptirman]

mouse pad material is the best shim material I have found. It can be built up in layers as required, and is dense enough to give a firm resistance when the pickup is screwed down onto it. All Gretsch Filtertron pickups are directly mounted, and this is what I used to alter the pickup height on my Country Gentleman..

Interesting that you said that. I am looking to raise my TV Jones Powertron a bit and was wondering what to use. Was going to use foam which is under my humbucker.
Do you think the mouse pad material alters the sound on your country gentleman at all?

 

[peter.k]

PT said:     

Interesting that you said that. I am looking to raise my TV Jones Powertron a bit and was wondering what to use. Was going to use foam which is under my humbucker.
Do you think the mouse pad material alters the sound on your country gentleman at all?

The simple answer, No. Nothing else really sounds like a Filtertron, the mouse pad did not change that sound at all for me.

 

[mgaut051]

This is a cool looking body style, what is it?... :icon_scratch:

Looks sort of stratish, but with a twist...

How'd they mount that HB without the tab routs showing? Rear mount? Is there a trem cavity?

 

[line6man]

This is a cool looking body style, what is it?... :icon_scratch:

Looks sort of stratish, but with a twist...

How'd they mount that HB without the tab routs showing? Rear mount? Is there a trem cavity?

It's easy enough to cut off the mounting tabs and then set the pickup in with double stick tape and shims.

 

[jbis]

This is a cool looking body style, what is it?... :icon_scratch:

Looks sort of stratish, but with a twist...

How'd they mount that HB without the tab routs showing? Rear mount? Is there a trem cavity?

It's easy enough to cut off the mounting tabs and then set the pickup in with double stick tape and shims.

It's a Tomahawk doublecut body (tomahawkcustomguitars.com) with a schaller Hannes bridge. I routed the pickup cavity with a pickguard humbucker template and the p-rail is screwed directly into the wood with the pickups own pole screws.