Which Trem shold I get? GFS vs. Gotoh

eef13

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I need to get a trem for my build but I don't know which of these I shoudl go with

The GFs 2 point Tremolo
http://www.guitarfetish.com/USA-Strat-2-Point-Hardened-Steel-BLACK-tremolo-system_p_776.html

or the Gotoh Vintage style tremolo

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailpieces/Electric_guitar_tremolos/Gotoh_Traditional_Tremolo_for_Strat.html
 
many people (myself included) recommend the 2 point trem over the 6 screw vintage style
 
I don't know about GFS quality, but if you go with Wilkinson (Gotoh) VS100 they are probably one of the highest rated 2 point trems you can find.
link: http://www.warmoth.com/Gotoh-Wilkinson-Tremolo-VS100-Chrome-P621C699.aspx
 
GFS hardware is pretty crap, pay $10 more and get Gotoh or similar. I haven't bought that bridge but all the other stuff they i've bought from them except pickups (hit and miss) and pickguards (fine) kinda sucks.
 
Definitely do the 2 point, but not from GFS. Gotoh, Schaller, Wilkinson, Hipshot, Fender all make good 2 point fulcrum vibrato bridges.
 
I would like to say that I don't use the wahmmy bar so much. I use it for the occasional dive bomb and stuff like that.
 
eef13 said:
I would like to say that I don't use the wahmmy bar so much. I use it for the occasional dive bomb and stuff like that.
If you use it ever, the answer is 2 point non-GFS trem.
 
Vibrato bridges have been problem children since their inception back in the mid 20th century, when dinosaurs ruled the Earth. But, they've always been such great fun that people have been breeding their problems and idiosyncrasies out in succeeding generations, until today when perfectly functional units that play nice and don't fight are as common as houseflies.

housefly.jpg


I'm unique, just like everyone else!

But, musicians are largely creative types, and as such are often slaves to their emotions rather than those pesky ol' laws of physics that just make their brains hurt. So, they continue to demand that old "vintage" (read: obsolete and/or problematic) designs be made available because, well, just because. Then, they take powerful drugs to fend off the realization that they're really just definite-purpose proxies put here on Earth for others to exploit for financial gain. But, I digress...

On the list of problems various vibrato bridges present, arguably the two most prominent and common to all since day one have been stability and repeatability. Stability refers to their ability to maintain consistent tension on each string and across a set of strings, which allows an instrument to stay in tune with itself. Repeatability refers to the bridge's ability to return to the strings to the tensile point they were at before any force was applied to move them, regardless of whether or not the strings were in tune to begin with.

The first vibrato bridge to truly accomplish this non-trivial feat was the Floyd Rose design, which rapidly rose to prominence among discerning users and remains a mainstay to this day. Once set up and tuned, you can beat the snot out of your strings and the thing is almost magical in its ability to keep all strings at their individual tensions as well as across the set, and return to a starting tension very accurately. This was accomplished with two key features: clamping (locking) the strings tight at or very near both ends of their speaking length, and using a two-point knife-edge fulcrum.

The locking feature was not without difficulties, however. The most obvious problem was once everything was locked up, you couldn't easily tune the instrument anymore. So, the mechanics were modified in such a way as to add "fine" tuners to the bridge which allowed small changes in tension without unlocking anything. That allowed for natural string stretch due to wear, although you couldn't change gross tunings if you wanted to go from, for instance, an open E to a Dropped D. The other obvious problem was the clamps themselves. Now you needed to carry and keep track of a tool or two to change strings, which also slowed down that operation in real time. Plus, all those linkages and pivot points made the thing more costly to manufacture, and tended to slightly dampen string vibration, leading to frequent accusations of being a "tone sucker". That last is probably more of a "sour grapes" thing than anything else, since the amount of dampening is almost certainly less than what you'd experience with any of the previous designs. But, you know... haters gotta hate even if it's baseless <grin>

Floyd's two-point knife-edge fulcrum was a no-brainer. Any time you have a pivot point under stress, you want the least friction possible to reduce wear and increase accuracy and repeatability. Almost all previous vibrato bridge designs didn't seem to consider this at all, which leads some to question the mechanical aptitude of previous designers (yeah, I'm looking at you, Leo).

Fast forward to today, and we've gotten rid of the locking nut in favor of locking tuners, which allows us to get rid of the "fine" tuners at the bridge and eliminate that maintenance and manufacturing cost and potential failure point. We've got better nuts with very low friction either due to rollers or material, so we don't have any string hang-ups there. Finally, we have better saddles, so variations in grip at the bridge aren't an issue anymore, either. We've got two-point knife-edge fulcrums on anything worth using, so repeatability isn't an issue. So, the Floyd is reduced to historical significance only, although you can still buy and install them if you like.

The whole point of this diatribe is this: no matter how little you use a vibrato, if it's not a good design, you're going to suffer. So, do the right thing or install a fixed bridge.
 
Wow! Somebody broke out the good coffee dis mornin'... :laughing7: :laughing7: I agree. Two point all the way. Hipshot wins by just a hair for elegance, but Fender/Wilkinson/Gotoh all rip and snort too. Really - ten years from now, it's not going to matter twhat you bought, it's going to matter how much you've been practicing for ten years. Here:
http://www.hosco.co.jp/HOSCO_ENGLISH/Pages/Gotoh.html

You can download the catalog of all the really cool Gotoh stuff you can't buy anywhere, and drive yourself nuts. :headbang1:
 
I am thinking about going with this Gotoh

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390212846912&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_1489wt_905

Does anybody know what type of block it has?
 
Nah, I just don't sleep much in the first place. Haven't since... a very long time. If I drank coffee, I'd never sleep at all and I'd be a lot more bitchy <grin>
 
eef13 said:
I am thinking about going with this Gotoh

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390212846912&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_1489wt_905

Does anybody know what type of block it has?

No, but try not to worry about that too much. There's a lot more sizzle than steak to that whole issue. What I'd be more worried about is that those aren't knife edge pivots - it just looks like a 6 point with the 4 inner points missing. Also, that looks like a skinny wang bar that'll feel springy and out of control in your hand. You want something more substantial than that if you can get it.
 
Gotoh makes good and reliable products. If I was making a guitar I would choose one of these:
http://ssl.bfit.jp/~jby/product_info.php?cPath=27_22_49&products_id=178
http://ssl.bfit.jp/~jby/product_info.php?products_id=177{6}78{1}2{8}91
 
Kostas said:
Gotoh makes good and reliable products. If I was making a guitar I would choose one of these:
http://ssl.bfit.jp/~jby/product_info.php?cPath=27_22_49&products_id=178
http://ssl.bfit.jp/~jby/product_info.php?products_id=177{6}78{1}2{8}91

Those are nice, but Gotoh also makes Wilkinsons that you can get from Warmoth for ~$50 less that are actually better units.
 
OK, just to add to the confusion, this one:
http://www.allparts.com/Gotoh-Fulcrum-Tremolo-Chrome-p/sb-5330-010.htm

It's surely the same one as the second one listed by Kostas, which was called a 510T-FE1, though this one is called a Gotoh 510FT-1W. Here's a thread about that bridge vs. the Hipshot:
http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=7463.0

All of the list prices are too high;
http://compare.ebay.com/like/360359330034?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&rvr_id=232322912545&clk_rvr_id=232322912545&crlp=1_263602_309572&UA=WXF%3F&GUID=937b2c361290a02652b1b4e1ff20b4ea&itemid=360359330034&ff4=263602_309572

With any search on Ebay that shows a closed listing, as long as it's a dealer, you can contact them and see if/when they'll be listing a new one. It's not violating Ebay practice, it's just (obviously) more economical for a dealer to pay for one listing at a time. Any Hipshot dealer (umm, ask?) can get their bridge cheaper, too. Amazon? Musician's Fiend? - it's a changing world.
 
Well, they're essentially the same bridge, but the Wilkinson version allows you to cinch down the saddles once you've got your heights set, so they have a better contact with the base plate and won't move side-to-side. I'd call that an improvement or an advantage, so I'm calling that a better bridge. You shouldn't ever have to move those again unless you change gauges on the strings, so they may as well be fixed.
 
the Gotoh Wilky VS100 (from Warmoth) is by far my favorite trem!

having said that, I bought a GFS Wilky for a low budget project once, and I was almost going to toss it because the block looked so flimsy. But I installed it, and it turned out a great trem for the money.
I would buy one again if I needed to save $40 again.. the only down side is that the saddles and studs are chrome on the black and gold versions..



September62009012.jpg
 
As I contemplate having Warmoth build me my super strat, I need more info on Gotohs. My understanding is that wth a quick adjustment on the back, this tremolo bridge will snap down and become a standard, solid bridge. Is this correct? Secondly, when used as a tremolo, there is no need for a double locking unit on the nut, as with standard FR systems. Is this also correct?
 
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