What is the best way to deal with an oversized pocket?

[vanstry]

So because of the shutdown I ordered a cheap body and neck from a foreign company so I'd have something to play with until the good stuff gets here.

I put the neck in the pocket (Jazz Bass) and the pocket is too wide (1/16th of an inch) and I'm not sure if the back wall of the pocket is even. Almost wondering if they cut a P-Bass pocket on a J-Bass.

So the question is, how do I deal with it? Should I just make sure everything is straight and centered and then drill pilot holes in the neck, then bolt it up into place? Should I fill the gaps with some sort of wood putty? Or just leave the gaps there?

It's going to make things harder, never had to deal with this before.

 

[Rick]

Since you’re just doing it for giggles the first thing to verify is that the scale length is correct.  How it looks doesn’t matter does it?

 

[PhilHill]

So because of the shutdown I ordered a cheap body and neck from a foreign company so I'd have something to play with until the good stuff gets here.

I put the neck in the pocket (Jazz Bass) and the pocket is too wide (1/16th of an inch) and I'm not sure if the back wall of the pocket is even. Almost wondering if they cut a P-Bass pocket on a J-Bass.

So the question is, how do I deal with it? Should I just make sure everything is straight and centered and then drill pilot holes in the neck, then bolt it up into place? Should I fill the gaps with some sort of wood putty? Or just leave the gaps there?

It's going to make things harder, never had to deal with this before.

If looks aren't that important, get your self some veneer strip like they use to edge band plywood. Use that as shim to get the neck straight to the center line of the body, and measure to check the scale length is right, it should be twice the distance from the nut to the twelfth fret. Carefully clamp the neck in place using some kind of pads to avoid scarring anything, drill your bolt holes then line the walls of the pocket with a single strip of the veneer glued in place. When dry, sand the veneer until the neck fits tighter than it is. Check every so often with a straight edge along side of the neck on both sides to make sure you stay in line. Then bolt the neck in and finish it off. It would be best if the veneer is the same kind of wood as the body, but if you can't find that use maple or some other hard wood. It sounds complicated but if you take your time it's really not that bad. Good luck on it

 

[BroccoliRob]

eat a box of Coco Crisp, tear up teh box, and shove pieces of it into the sides of the pocket until you are satisfied with the result.

or just leave it alone  cuz neck pockets are a myth, like leprechauns or billy ocean.

 

[PhilHill]

Sorry my first post was rather brief as I was tired and involved in another matter at the time. So here goes.
The best possible way to fix an oversized neck pocket is to fill the pocket with wood of the same type and grain pattern as the body wood and then reroute the pocket. However I suspect this is not something you want to get into, and would be far too elaborate an effort for a cheapo body.
But, you still want the neck to be solidly held in the pocket. Transference of vibrations and production of tone are two reasons. There is also the matter of stability, if the neck can move around in the pocket it will affect tuning and intonation stability. While bolts or screws can hold the neck fairly tight by themselves, those alone still leave the chance that the neck can move sideways or laterally on it's mount. So, you want some kind of sidewall to prevent this.
In this situation, if I understand you right, the best way would be to get the neck properly positioned in the pocket, clamp to hold it tight and then look over the sides and heel to see how much gap there is. You will want to fill this gap with some kind of wood to achieve a tight fit. That's why I suggested the veneer, it is pre-cut thinly and if the gap is a total of about 1/16, would be thin enough to allow you to fit what you need into the gaps.
Once you determine the how the pocket needs to be filled then while it's still clamped drill your bolt holes and install some screws to hold the neck tight, then remove your clamp(s) and start cutting and fitting pieces of veneer to fill the gaps. Trim them flush with the body. Once your happy with the result, remove the neck and glue the various pieces to the sides and heel of the body. It might take some creativity to clamp them in place, or you could use thick C/A glue to instant bond them.
When the glue is dry, lightly sand the whole thing and put the neck back in and double check on the positioning for center-line and scale length. If all is good, then decide how you want to finish out the body.

 

[vanstry]

Okay, what I had decided on was to redo the back of the pocket (cut it a little deeper) and cut some veneer strips and put them in. When I was tracing the end of the neck I noticed that the sides of the next were trimmed in, so the bottom was narrower then the top :-(  This led me to thinking that there was a lot more space to the sides as I was using the bottom of the heel to trace my patterns.

So basically the heel isn't a rectangle (when you look at it end on) it's a parallelogram.

So I reshaped the back of the pocket, by hand, carefully, so it fit against the end of the neck better. Not perfect, but better. This decreased the size of the shim needed significantly, but I know there is some void space in there due to the terrible sanding job someone did at the factory. Not sure how I'll handle it yet. I may leave it, I may fill it. Have to hear how it sounds.

I'd also decide to add 2 screws to holding the neck in, like some of the fancier guitars out there. Mainly because I don't want this one to wobble at all as the pocket isn't as tight as it should be.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

 

[PhilHill]

Okay, what I had decided on was to redo the back of the pocket (cut it a little deeper) and cut some veneer strips and put them in. When I was tracing the end of the neck I noticed that the sides of the next were trimmed in, so the bottom was narrower then the top :-(  This led me to thinking that there was a lot more space to the sides as I was using the bottom of the heel to trace my patterns.

So basically the heel isn't a rectangle (when you look at it end on) it's a parallelogram.

So I reshaped the back of the pocket, by hand, carefully, so it fit against the end of the neck better. Not perfect, but better. This decreased the size of the shim needed significantly, but I know there is some void space in there due to the terrible sanding job someone did at the factory. Not sure how I'll handle it yet. I may leave it, I may fill it. Have to hear how it sounds.

I'd also decide to add 2 screws to holding the neck in, like some of the fancier guitars out there. Mainly because I don't want this one to wobble at all as the pocket isn't as tight as it should be.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

Sounds to me like you did the best that could be done with it. I think adding the screws was a good idea. Congrats on the job Sir. Hope it works out well for you. :icon_thumright:

 

[BroccoliRob]

Okay, what I had decided on was to redo the back of the pocket (cut it a little deeper) and cut some veneer strips and put them in. When I was tracing the end of the neck I noticed that the sides of the next were trimmed in, so the bottom was narrower then the top :-(  This led me to thinking that there was a lot more space to the sides as I was using the bottom of the heel to trace my patterns.

So basically the heel isn't a rectangle (when you look at it end on) it's a parallelogram.

So I reshaped the back of the pocket, by hand, carefully, so it fit against the end of the neck better. Not perfect, but better. This decreased the size of the shim needed significantly, but I know there is some void space in there due to the terrible sanding job someone did at the factory. Not sure how I'll handle it yet. I may leave it, I may fill it. Have to hear how it sounds.

I'd also decide to add 2 screws to holding the neck in, like some of the fancier guitars out there. Mainly because I don't want this one to wobble at all as the pocket isn't as tight as it should be.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

is a neck really gonna 'wobble' with four screws titghtened down? two extra screws seems excessive, but hey you found a perceived solution to a perceived problem so kudos i guess. i just can't reconcile this in my head, but it might have something to do with my friend Todd stealing my mood ring and I don't know how I feel about that.

 

[vanstry]

is a neck really gonna 'wobble' with four screws titghtened down? two extra screws seems excessive, but hey you found a perceived solution to a perceived problem so kudos i guess. i just can't reconcile this in my head, but it might have something to do with my friend Todd stealing my mood ring and I don't know how I feel about that.

It's not wobble so much as I want to be sure that the neck is pulled in tight to get a good sound transfer. I'm more worried about that being spotty due to lack of contact and not having a tight fit.

 

[swarfrat]

It's a cheap body. Put it together and have fun with it. If you're concerned about 'sound transfer' then get something you know will fit.

 

[rgand]

I'm not an expert here but I can't see how a loose pocket would be an issue. I put a Warmoth neck on a Squier body and it was loose in the pocket. I just lined the neck up to center the strings on it and snugged the screws down as normal. It never was an issue.

For another comparison, the Nomad and Star bodies Warmoth offers don't have any appreciable sides on the neck pockets. Other than the heel itself, the screws are all that really keep the neck aligned. If there was any side loading on the neck that the screws wouldn't hold, those sides would get a whole lot of side pressure.

 

[vanstry]

It's a cheap body. Put it together and have fun with it. If you're concerned about 'sound transfer' then get something you know will fit.

I only bought it cause when I called up Warmoth to buy a prebuilt neck and body, while waiting for the custom order so I'd have something to do, they told me they were closing for two weeks and it'd be probably a month before I saw that. The cheap place is in Canada and they're not closed by the government, so I bought theirs.

Yeah, it may all be cheap, but I still want it to sound like it isn't. Hell, the pickups will cost more than the neck and body combined!

 

[vanstry]

The back curve that the neck fits into was messed up. I fixed it, mostly, but it's still not perfect and I just want to be sure there's a good firm contact. I believe that on a bass, a good contact between the body and the neck is important for a good sound.

 

[PhilHill]

Think of it this way, take two 2x4's and bolt them together at one end. or do something like this;

Which way is going to allow less movement. No, there's no side reinforcement. But the end of the neck butting up against the bottom wall of the pocket is going to hold it firmer. At least that's what I've found. :icon_thumright:

 

[vanstry]

I sunk the extra two at an angle into the heel of the neck to pull it forward. I had to drill two new holes and then countersink them, because they're forward of the usual four.

 

[PhilHill]

I sunk the extra two at an angle into the heel of the neck to pull it forward. I had to drill two new holes and then countersink them, because they're forward of the usual four.

While that's not exactly the way a traditional builder would go about it, hey if it worked for you, that's all that counts. Like we've established, it's not like your modifying a vintage Fender or anything.
I just think that a solid connection there is very important, even if the normal four bolts alone seem solid, it doesn't take much movement at the heel to be transformed into a lot more movement 30 in's up the neck at the headstock. It would take me too long to figure out the formula, but there probably people here who can tell how much .003 worth of shift at the heel would become all the way up at the tuners.