What are the Warmoth neck bow specifications?

[Raph Loyd]

Hi all !

I received my Warmoth guitar parts (custom build) 4 days ago:
Finished alder standard strat body
Finished maple modern strat neck, SS6105 frets, 10-16'' compound radius, standard thin back shape, 11/16'' nut width

As I have no skill in guitar assembly, I brought all the parts to my luthier.
The first thing he checked was the neck, and he noticed that it had a 1/32'' concave bow (unstrung neck, slack truss rod).
He had to tighten the truss rod (the heel-adjust nut, not the side-adjust bolt) very hard to make the neck straight. After that he loosened the truss rod and decided to hold the guitar assembly.
In his opinion, a brand new neck should be perfectly straight. He also believes that the current neck would lead to issues during the assembly and afterwards (difficulties to get a fairly straight strung neck, longevity issues, risk of fretboard stripping, ...)

I reported the problem to Warmoth and they suggested me to return the neck for Warranty inspection. I live in France and the shipping (France-US + US-France) would almost cost the price of the neck itself (~$300).

Before doing that, I need to know what are the Warmoth manufacturing neck bow specifications.

Warmoth mentions that « necks are intentionally milled with an under bow (string relief) which is apparent when the truss rod is slack », which seems to be confirmed by many customers who have bought Warmoth necks for decades.

I have 2 questions for you:
According to your experience with Warmoth materials, with a 1/32’’ concave bow, do you think the luthier’s fears are justified?
Do you know what are the current Warmoth neck bow specifications?

Thank you very much in advance for your help!

 

[AirCap]

Unless the guitar has been assembled and strung up to pitch for at least 24 hours before adjusting the truss rod - your "luthier" is full of poop.

 

[Logrinn]

I'm not quite sure I understand what is happening here. :icon_scratch:
If the neck is slightly concave and the truss rod is not tightened, then it should be possible to make the neck straight or even convex by tightening the screw. I would say that this scenario is perfectly normal.
But if you on the other hand got a neck that is convex when the truss rod isn't tightened and the strings hasn't enough tension to pull it straight or even slightly concave, then the neck will have a problem and you won't be able to avoid fret buzz. Or even notes fretting out.
Maybe it's this latter example that you have got?

 

[BigSteve22]

Unless the guitar has been assembled and strung up to pitch for at least 24 hours before adjusting the truss rod - your "luthier" is full of poop

I certainly don't have AirCap's experience or level of expertise, but my experience has also been that, a slight concave profile is the norm for a neck with no truss rod tension. Further more, without letting the neck settle in and adjust to being under string tension at a particular truss rod setting, you're just whistling in the wind.

 

[timezon3]

Mine had a very slight amount of backbow, or negative relief prior to mounting and stringing up.  It still needed to have the truss rod tightened to get positive relief once it had been strung up.  I would wager your neck is fine.

TZ

 

[Raph Loyd]

Thanks for your answers!

As I said, the neck is concave with a 1/32'' bow (0.03125'').
My concern is to know if this value is in accordance with Warmoth standard and if the truss rod would compensate it once the guitar will be mounted with a 10-48 strings set.
As a reminder, this is modern neck.

 

[stratamania]

Was the procedure for adjustments followed as per this page. From the earlier posts, this would not appear to have been followed.

http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Necks/SideAdjust.aspx

 

[dmraco]

Almost all of my necks are completely flat when I get them from warmoth.  Before you ship back I would string and and see what it look likes. 

Also this time of year in the US, its is extremely dry and the necks aways bow.  Those who live in the colder climates  certainly understand the need for neck adjustment.  It was also shipped for some time as well.

Let it settle and get some humidity back in the wood.  If you cannot get a decent level of relief after it is assembled, I would then look into shipping back.

 

[Cagey]

As I said, the neck is concave with a 1/32'' bow (0.03125'').

This might be where the confusion is coming from. "Bow" has a specific meaning when talking about necks, and always refers to back bow, which would be a convex curve when viewed from the fretboard side. In other words, if you set a straightedge on the fretboard, it would contact the middle frets first and there would be gaps at the lower and upper frets. This is undesirable and in extreme cases unusable.

You want a concave curve, which is referred to as "relief", not bow. In other words, a straightedge would contact the end frets leaving a small gap around the middle fret area.

Relief is deliberately built in to the neck, it is adjusted out by tightening the truss rod to straighten the neck. You never want any bow, and in fact usually don't want it straight. You want a small amount of relief, typically .006" to .008".

If Warmoth has a specification for how much relief is built into the neck, I've never seen it. I see a lot of Warmoth necks here, many of them new, and in my experience they typically have about .005" relief as shipped. I have to tighten the truss rod to straighten them in order to level the frets.

Modern construction necks typically don't move much, if at all, going from being unstrung to strung. It's their only selling point, really. The things are unusually stable.

 

[Raph Loyd]

This might be where the confusion is coming from. "Bow" has a specific meaning when talking about necks, and always refers to back bow, which would be a convex curve when viewed from the fretboard side. In other words, if you set a straightedge on the fretboard, it would contact the middle frets first and there would be gaps at the lower and upper frets. This is undesirable and in extreme cases unusable.

You want a concave curve, which is referred to as "relief", not bow. In other words, a straightedge would contact the end frets leaving a small gap around the middle fret area.

Relief is deliberately built in to the neck, it is adjusted out by tightening the truss rod to straighten the neck. You never want any bow, and in fact usually don't want it straight. You want a small amount of relief, typically .006" to .008".

If Warmoth has a specification for how much relief is built into the neck, I've never seen it. I see a lot of Warmoth necks here, many of them new, and in my experience they typically have about .005" relief as shipped. I have to tighten the truss rod to straighten them in order to level the frets.

Modern construction necks typically don't move much, if at all, going from being unstrung to strung. It's their only selling point, really. The things are unusually stable.

Thank you for your message, and sorry for my translation confusion! My unstrung neck is well and truly concave with a 1/32'' relief (.031'')

If, in your experience, neck have about .005'' as shipped, that means that I will have to tighten significantly more the truss rod to straighten the neck in order to level the frets. That was the luthier's fear.
What will be the remaining truss rod adjustment margin once the neck is strung? Enough I hope!

I think about asking my luthier to assemble the current neck + body. If he doesn't manage to get a suitable relief on the strung neck, I would then look into shipping back.

 

[Cagey]

You should be able to straighten that neck without any problem. Since it's a "modern" construction neck with a dual truss rod, there won't be a great deal of movement, if any at all, between unstrung and strung. I often put the relief I want in those necks while they're still on the bench, and still have it once the guitar is assembled/strung. I also have a full setup jig I use for fine-tuning...

...so I can see how things move. Modern construction necks are very stable. I have guitars here that have had necks on them I haven't needed to adjust in 8-10 years, and this is Michigan, where the temperature and humidity fluctuate quite a bit.

 

[Raph Loyd]

Thank you Cagey for your feedback!
I'm gonna ask my luthier to start that. If in the worst case the neck isn't satisfactory, I will return it for Warranty inspection.

I will keep you informed in the next weeks! Thank you all again for your replies!

 

[Raph Loyd]

Hi all,

My luthier finally managed to adjust the truss-rod to compensate the initial neck concave relief (1/32'' (0.031'') unmounted neck, loosened truss rod).
After 3 weeks, the assembled guitar is great, and the neck is certainly the best I have played with (very straight, no buzz).
As a result, I cancel the Warmoth RMA and I'm gonna keep on playing with my new toy!  :toothy10:

Thanks again for your recommendations when I received my guitar parts in January!

 

[Cagey]

Congratulations on your new fiddle, and I'm glad that all worked out for you!

 

[BigSteve22]

Look'n good, Raph! Congrats on your new toy.

 

[rgand]

Good show, pard. Congratulations. :glasses10: