Went to a gig... WTF guitar tuning?

[bluestometal]

Yesterday night I went to a gig of a friend's band (she sings), they played some good rock and blues tunes and the show was good (altough the acoustic and the overall tone was a bit muddy). My friends and I sat next to the guitarist (about 1 meter at his side... yeah, pretty close), he had a pretty nice set-up: Fender Twin, a pedal board composed of some od's, a delay, a Wah pedal, a boss Tuner pedal and some other thing I didn't recognize; as guitars he used two Fender Stratocaster and a Gibosn Les Paul std, the two Stratos played pretty well, very fat and warm while the LP played, hard to believe, very shrill and sometime ear piercing (either one of the Stratos had some nails-on-the-board moments, but very rare compared to the LP) but what really bring my attention was the fact that the guitarist was retuning his guitar each song. Let me explain better: this guy had a very gentle touch, and dindn't abuse of the tremolo or bendings but at the end of each song he was hitting his Boss tuner and, by my position next to him, I could see the strings were a bit too much out of tune and not that "just a bit depending by temperature/bridge/action" bit. As I know both stock Gibson's and Fender's go easly out of tune (I've a Flying V sitting in its case around and, as I remember, never stayed in tune for more than 2 songs) 'cause of poorly cutted nuts or non-perfect bridge saddles or mediocre tuning machines but yesterday night was simply ridiculus, it was not "checking" it was "retuning a way-off-tuning intrument"! I remember, when I was used to play way more gigs than now (right now I'm near the absolute zero  :toothy11:  :toothy12: ) when the guitar was freshly setted and rodded I, sometime, played a whole 30-40 min gig without needing any checking-retuning and I've pretty fu**ing heavy picking hand and really abuse of bendings. Did someone of you experienced or seen/heard something similar? Have a nice day.

 

[Ace Flibble]

Stock or otherwise, I've yet to see anybody have to retune between each song, other than if they'e been abusing a 6-screw, Stetsbar or Bigsby vibrato too much. Certainly the first time I've ever heard of anyone believing that Gibsons, of all things, "go [easily] out of tune".

In my (unfortunately, extensive) experience setting up shitty, cheap guitars, I've found that most tuning issues—commonly blamed on poorly cut nuts, cheap tuners, dodgy bridge saddles and even the string brand—are actually simply down to the owner not knowing how to restring a guitar properly. If you lock the string in at the tuners (note: does not require locking tuners) then you've already solved 99% of 'tuning problems'.

I think the only guitar I've ever had the misfortune of touching that consistently fell out of tune, which couldn't be solved by simply stringing it correctly, was in fact one of my Warmoth Tele builds, which I had set up by a well-recommended tech, a couple of years before I learnt how to do such things myself. To this day I'm still not sure what exactly he did to the nut, or why, but the second and third strings would go out of tune within seconds, despite the fixed bridge and locking tuners. Had to shelve that guitar entirely until I could cut my own nuts and fitted an Earvana compensated one.

 

[Cagey]

...it was not "checking" it was "retuning a way-off-tuning intrument"!

Some players are super-anal about tuning and are constantly goofing with it even when it doesn't need it. Sometimes, it's their playing style that makes the guitar play out of tune when it's really not. For instance, if you have taller frets and are manhandling the thing, a tuner will say it's in tune but it won't play that way. I've known both types. One guy actually brings a freakin' full-size Strobotuner to gigs and I swear he pays more attention to that than the audience. Another has a death grip, and the best tuning and setup in the world will seem to go to hell under his hands.

Those are just idiosyncrasies, though. The worst is the guy who can't/won't tune and it's obvious to everyone.

 

[Tonar8352]

That sounds to me like he did not have the guitars strung correctly at the tuning posts so the strings were slipping.

On Christmas my nephew was telling me about  his new Regal round neck Dobro style guitar that was his Christmas present from his wife.  He did not have it with him but said he liked it pretty much except it kept loosing tuning.  I asked if he had the strings locked at the tuners and he said he thought they were since he had gotten it at the Guitar Center.

I sent him home to get it because I wanted to play it and sure enough the strings were not strung correctly. I'm surprised at how many people over the years I have had to show how to correctly put stings on a guitar. I am not surprised that the Guitar Center sold a guitar strung improperly; after all they are the same people that told me they only sold KORG and Boss tuners when I asked if they had a set of Kluson Tuners.  :doh:

 

[VinceClortho]

It could have been a new set of strings on the LP, especially if they were thrown on in haste right before the gig without a good stretching.  That could explain the brightness as well.  :dontknow: 

 

[bluestometal]

...it was not "checking" it was "retuning a way-off-tuning intrument"!

Some players are super-anal about tuning and are constantly goofing with it even when it doesn't need it. Sometimes, it's their playing style that makes the guitar play out of tune when it's really not. For instance, if you have taller frets and are manhandling the thing, a tuner will say it's in tune but it won't play that way. I've known both types. One guy actually brings a freakin' full-size Strobotuner to gigs and I swear he pays more attention to that than the audience. Another has a death grip, and the best tuning and setup in the world will seem to go to hell under his hands.

Those are just idiosyncrasies, though. The worst is the guy who can't/won't tune and it's obvious to everyone.

Yeah, you're right but in this specific case I was looking at his tuner pedal and, after each song, each string was at far left from the green dot on the tuners leds, sometime (mostly with the LP and less with the Stratos) the strings were so off the led started to appear from the far left after a 1/4 or so turn of the key.

It could have been a new set of strings on the LP, especially if they were thrown on in haste right before the gig without a good stretching.  That could explain the brightness as well.  :dontknow: 

Right, it could be, and it could be the same on all three guitars. I know it's just nit picking but it drag my attention  :toothy12:

 

[Steve_Karl]

That sounds to me like he did not have the guitars strung correctly at the tuning posts so the strings were slipping.

That's my guess also ... and that whoever strung them didn't know to stretch them until they would stay in tune for a 5 fret bend.

 

[AprioriMark]

I've been amazed by how many players don't know how to set up/restring their guitar properly.  I have one friend who owns multiples of the same guitar so that when he breaks a string, he has another.  He then brings me the guitar with the broken string like it's busted beyond repair.  I've showed him how to restring it properly a dozen times, but "it only holds its tuning when you restring it."  Seriously, it isn't brainy rocket surgery science, but a guy who gigs 3 times a week can't figure it out?

-Mark

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

I played with a guy that tuned after every song, and sometimes during, because he needed to.  I told him all the tell tales, too many wraps, poor nut, etc., etc.  His solution was new tuners and a wound G (which it wasn't re-intonated for and introduced a whole other slew of open vs. fretted tuning issues).  It still went out of tune, and on other strings too.  I asked how a wound G was supposed to help his A, D, and B stay in tune better.  Ironically, these were Gibsons because he is a Gibson fanboy, but he sold a Fender and Rickenbacker because they went out of tune too much.  (whispering, "So do your Gibsons.  What do all of these guitars have in common?  You.")

 

[AprioriMark]

This is where I publicly admit that one of my Warmoth Strats was giving me fits lately... and it was my own dumb fault.  I don't usually need a trem, and ifI do, I've been keen on Bigsbys lately.  This band calls for nutso wang bar antics, so I've been using the Wilk-equipt Superstrat (chambered body, locking tuners, lil '59 bridge pickup, Roadhouse p90 middle, Roadhouse overwound strat neck pickup).  It was going *sharp* on me inbetween songs, and the knife edges were perfect, I cut a new nut... tried everything.

It ended up that I hadn't tightened the hex nuts to hold the saddles in place at some point and just... totally... failed to notice.

Made for a really good laugh when I figured it out.  It's perfect now.

-Mark

 

[Strat Avenger]

I have to re-tune every song or every 2 songs. It doesn't matter what guitar I use, or whether it has a fixed bridge or a Floyd.

Basic string-bending or any temperature change sends it out-of-tune (and yes, I stretch my strings well when I change them).

I actually think that a lot of guitar players are tone-deaf and don't even know when their guitar is not in perfect tune. I hear guys all the time talking about how no matter how much they abuse their Floyd, it stays in "perfect tune".  That is so far from reality, it's ridiculous. Strings stretch and do not always return to pitch, wood (necks) moves, nut slots bind, etc.

With that said, my g/f has a 5-string bass that you can tune once and forget about. In fact, it can sit for 2 or 3 weeks on the stand and when you pick it up, the damn thing is in-tune!

 

[Updown]

May-be each song had a different / special / unique / retro style / unusual / space age tuning .......  :icon_jokercolor: 

 

[bluestometal]

May-be each song had a different / special / unique / retro style / unusual / space age tuning .......  :icon_jokercolor:

Right  :toothy12:

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Basic string-bending or any temperature change sends it out-of-tune (and yes, I
With that said, my g/f has a 5-string bass that you can tune once and forget about. In fact, it can sit for 2 or 3 weeks on the stand and when you pick it up, the damn thing is in-tune!

I think that's true of a lot of basses.  The bending going on is more of the vibrato type rather than bending to pitch like on guitar.  The strings stay on a lot longer, and broken in to the point of sounding dead is preferable for some.  It is not uncommon to pull one out of case, and have it only need slight adjustments, and sometimes no adjustments.  Look at a lot of bass players rigs too.  Many don't have a tuner in the signal chain.  They unplug and do it as needed.  If they planned on doing it often, the tuner would be more accessible.

 

[stubhead]

He then brings me the guitar with the broken string like it's busted beyond repair.  I've showed him how to restring it properly a dozen times, but "it only holds its tuning when you restring it."  Seriously, it isn't brainy rocket surgery science, but a guy who gigs 3 times a week can't figure it out?

- Ummm, has it occurred to you - he has no need to figure it out? :laughing7:

When I hear tales of major woes like this that aren't from an obvious cause - leaving your guitar in the trunk in the winter, then playing without warming it up etc. - I always wonder if the guy simply buys guitars with floppy necks. I mean you grab the headstock, wiggle it around, if the guitar goes  - woo - woo -woo - you don't buy it. I have this one ridiculous Warmoth neck, 12 years old now, quarter-sawn maple boatneck, scalloped ebony board - it will not go out of tune. I can tune it on a Monday, tune the G and high E again on Thursday, tune it again the next Monday... grab the headstock and do whatever you want, it won't move. Maybe he needs a better neck.

Why is he playing three guitars anyway? :icon_scratch:

 

[Cagey]

He then brings me the guitar with the broken string like it's busted beyond repair.  I've showed him how to restring it properly a dozen times, but "it only holds its tuning when you restring it."  Seriously, it isn't brainy rocket surgery science, but a guy who gigs 3 times a week can't figure it out?

- Ummm, has it occurred to you - he has no need to figure it out? :laughing7:

Hehe! Spoiler alert!

When I hear tales of major woes like this that aren't from an obvious cause - leaving your guitar in the trunk in the winter, then playing without warming it up etc. - I always wonder if the guy simply buys guitars with floppy necks. I mean you grab the headstock, wiggle it around, if the guitar goes  - woo - woo -woo - you don't buy it.

I knew a guy years back with a Gibson Firebird that was that way. Long, thin Mahogany neck with all the structural integrity of over-cooked fettuccine. One of the songs he liked to play was Heart's "Barracuda", where in the intro there's that bit of dive. No wang bar on the 'bird, but it didn't matter. You just pushed forward on the neck and it was at least as good as a Bigsby. Then, one day, the neck said "SNAP", and that was that. Fettuccine wasn't cooked that day, but the guitar was toast.

 

[AutoBat]

Mmmm... Fettuccine w/toast.

I was told there would be food here.

 

[Cagey]

ROTFLMAO! Very good!

 

[MikeW]

I have a close friend that I jam with, and his favorite guitar is an LP. Try as I might I cannot get the thing tuned or to stay in tune when I play it. It's always just not quite right. I can get it close enough, but to my ear it's always a bit off. Strangely enough, when I get one of my Strats back from him the G string is always sharp and B is always flat.

He's got a heavier touch and bends relentlessly while he solos, where I tend not to hit the strings as hard as he does. So it's just my $0.02, but I think alot of tuning issues have to do with how you play.

 

[bluestometal]

So it's just my $0.02, but I think alot of tuning issues have to do with how you play.

Sure thing.