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Warmoth nylon string

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hannaugh

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Just curious, if you were going to build a Warmoth nylon stringed guitar, how would you do it (what body style, woods, hardware, etc...)?  I've seen a couple examples where people made Warmoth nylon stringed Strats, and I am kind of intrigued. 

I love the nylon sound, but I haven't come across very many classical/flamenco guitars that I really loved.  I think a Warmoth one would be cool.  Maybe an LPS with a mahogany back and a spruce top.  I don't know what all I'd do for electronics though. 
 
It's kind of intrigued me as well. My Carvin AE185 has a pretty good acoustic pickup in the bridge so I might be tempted to go that route. Something they would make hollow, or at least chambered. Mahogany with a spruce or koa top. Maybe an f-hole, maybe not. Bound top edge.

Something like an Explorer might be fun...
 
I'm close to ordering parts for mine but I have to find some time to do some test work on scrap wood before I order, so I know whether I need to order no pups routed in the body or 1 pup rout in the bridge.
My goal is for rear route and no pick guard so if i want to do that I have to prove to myself that I can find a way to get the wires from the graphtech saddles into the control cavity..

We were discussing it in this thread: http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=16379.0

Anyway, I'm almost positive I'm going for chambered mahogany 1 F hole with a curley maple top. Side jack.
Neck will be strat warmoth pro bloodwood with ebony fretboard boatneck, or maybe '59 roundback, most likely 1-3/4" nut as my other 2 are. Not positive yet. Might go 1-11/16".
Schaller mini locking tuners. Narrow strat bridge. Frets will be 6230. I want to be able to feel the fretboard.
I've already got all the graphtech parts and also 1 wood knob.

Graphtech is the only logical choice for electronics after hearing this one:  http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=11042.15

Sound clip right above the first picture.
 
Wow, I am anxious to see what you do with that.  I really want one now that I've been thinking about it for a while, but I don't know what the logistics would have to be. 

How crazy would it be to use an acoustic bridge with a UST like the Stagg EW3000? 

Stagg_EW-3000_CBK_Westerngitarre.jpg
 
The very, very, very best piezo pickups sound like... piezo pickups to me, and I'm not alone in this. You don't see the Variax guitars taking over the world, because at the heart of every modeling parameter they use is - ugly piezo sound. At times it becomes ludicrous, as in Takamine's contract with the (not-so)-Grand Old Opry. You'll see a bluegrass quintet with Jerry Douglas's dobro through a contact mike, the violin and banjo will just step closer to the mike, the upright bass is using a contact mike - and the guitarist alone is making those gruesome plasticine quacking noises, completely unlike an amplified string ever sounded before.... Because nylon strings have no treble to speak of, the horror is somewhat minimized, but I do wonder what you want to play on it that can't either be played on a real guitar, or on a real classical guitar with a mike?

The greatest tragedy now is that a couple of generations have grown up with that sound and they don't even know what's wrong with it and what they're missing... there is a fellow named Dave Matthews who writes some interesting & fairly complex music, he always has a great band... but his own, personal guitar sound is aural terrorism. As talented as he is, he could pick up a Strat & a Twin Reverb and it might take him six months to relearn how to play.

JUST SAY NO!
:cool01: to piezo terrorism... be strong. :cool01:​
 
The problem is... I've hated 95% of the classical guitars I have ever played, and the ones I have liked were $3000+.  And even the ones that were nice to play, I thought were ugly.  But most of them I like the sound of, I just hate the necks and the feel and how they look in general.  And I don't think piezos sound that bad. 
 
Being primarily a fingerstyle player (and right now, only owning a nylon string classical as my lone fretted guitar), I've thought about this a LOT.   :icon_biggrin:  

- WIDE neck, superwide being the only option, realistically.  Nylon strings are usually bigger, so the wider the better in terms of string spacing.  After some experimentation, I've discovered I love fatbacks, but one could do a standard thin profile if they wished.

- Likewise, wide bridge. The widest spaced guitar bridge I know of is the vintage hardtail strat (2 7/32"), though one could also buy individual saddles & make it wider. However, the vintage strat bridge makes it very easy to get replacement saddles with piezos.

- +1 on Graphtech Ghost saddles & Acoustiphonic pre-amp.  I gotta disagree with Stub, there: not all Piezo ("Pee-ay-Zoh"? "Py-Zoh"?) pickups are created equal, and amplification/signal chain makes a BIG difference.  I've heard lots of terrible quacky piezo sounds, but I've heard some that sound quite good.  I'd say go to a music store that carries Godin, and try one of their nylons through a good acoustic guitar amp.  They use Graphtech, as does Carvin on their NS1 - it's a seriously great pickup.

- Hollow/chambered body (the hollower the better, IMHO) I think the L5S hollow or Thinline Tele would work great. I'm also a fan of the plain top, no pickups route, so that limits the options for top & finish with Warmoth (what with the bridge pickup index hole).  But there are plenty of ways around that - aizenx's pickguard looks killer on that top routed body.  Or you could get a body elsewhere or build your own that wouldn't have the index hole.

For me, I think I'd say I'd go for a 72 Thinline body, get a nice figured wood pickguard (no holes for anything but volume) from somewhere, rout/dremel out absolutely every bit of wood inside that would be covered by the pickguard (I'd do it carefully though.  :icon_thumright:), then vintage strat bridge, Superwide strat neck, and Graphtech system.  I think Walnut body, Koa (or maybe Cedar) pickguard, and Rosewood/Ebony neck.

. . . and as long as I'm dreaming, I'd like a pony.   :icon_biggrin:

Dang... I really need my Firebird neck to get here - I'm getting serious GAS!
 
I've been planning on a Graphtech Ghost system for my strat build, but before I lay down all that money, I'm gonna try taping a $2 piezo transducer to the bridge block and see what that sounds like.
 
Stub: two Head said:
The very, very, very best piezo pickups sound like... piezo pickups to me, and I'm not alone in this. You don't see the Variax guitars taking over the world, because at the heart of every modeling parameter they use is - ugly piezo sound. At times it becomes ludicrous, as in Takamine's contract with the (not-so)-Grand Old Opry. You'll see a bluegrass quintet with Jerry Douglas's dobro through a contact mike, the violin and banjo will just step closer to the mike, the upright bass is using a contact mike - and the guitarist alone is making those gruesome plasticine quacking noises, completely unlike an amplified string ever sounded before.... Because nylon strings have no treble to speak of, the horror is somewhat minimized, but I do wonder what you want to play on it that can't either be played on a real guitar, or on a real classical guitar with a mike?

The greatest tragedy now is that a couple of generations have grown up with that sound and they don't even know what's wrong with it and what they're missing... there is a fellow named Dave Matthews who writes some interesting & fairly complex music, he always has a great band... but his own, personal guitar sound is aural terrorism. As talented as he is, he could pick up a Strat & a Twin Reverb and it might take him six months to relearn how to play.
Click to expand...


Bogus tone worms.
My Adamas II sounds amazing and so do the graphtech systems.

 
I think it boils down to taste and expectations. Complaining that a piezo (however you pronounce it) doesn't sound like an unamplified dreadnought is not unlike leveling the same complaint at a solid-body electric guitar.  It's effectively a different instrument electrified.  That having been said, yes, some things generally do sound nicer to most folks than other things do.  I am agnostic - but thought I'd throw my bit of nitpicking into the mix, because hey, it's Teh Interwebz!

bagman
 
Well my test rout of the channel for the saddle wires was bad. It looked sloppy.
So I'm going to have a luthier rout it for me.
 
My acoustic with the piezo is a Yairi Alvarez with their Series 600T pre in it.  It sounds great.  Until I found some of the more out of the way acoustics, and pick up systems, I was right there with Stub Head.  There are some really bad sounding systems out there.  That being said, I do like the one I have now quite a bit.  I guess it is like most things, lots of crud, and a couple of winners.
Patrick

 
I'm not a fan of piezo either but for a nylon string solid body are there any other options? (I believe someone made an optical pickup, never heard anything about it though)

And actually - think for a nylon string, the quack would not be as noticeable or detrimental as it is for a steel string.
 
Lightwave has a few guitars also but it seems like the guitars are built around the pickup systems.

 
I will say that acoustics, live, should be properly miced but in a small bar situation, short set, crap PA, etc.,  the whole thing becomes a bit of a pain. I went to a fishman matrix infinity UST / Aura pedal and I get about 85% of my Larrivee's goodness from that - no real quack to speak of.
But I don't know what you would do with an electric solidbody nylon string? I can't see the point.
 
tfarny said:
I will say that acoustics, live, should be properly miced but in a small bar situation, short set, crap PA, etc.,  the whole thing becomes a bit of a pain. I went to a fishman matrix infinity UST / Aura pedal and I get about 85% of my Larrivee's goodness from that - no real quack to speak of.
But I don't know what you would do with an electric solidbody nylon string? I can't see the point.
Click to expand...

I'm willing to bet I'm gonna get a more predictable and controlled, and easier to manipulate ( after tracking .. i.e. with eq  )
sound than I could if I had to mic a real classical guitar.
This sample convinced me it's possible.  http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=11042.15
Cut back on the reverb, firm up the mids a bit and there you have it.

Other perks are that a strat body is the most comfortable guitar I've ever held. It first me perfectly, and to be able to adjust the action with a 2 screws per saddle
bridge makes an other great feature.

What I'm gonna do with it is start using it with my virtual orchestra in film oriented pieces, or with percussion and upright bass (virtual of course)
for Mexican / Spanish simulations.

I hate having to mic acoustic guitars, having to sit in an isolated booth etc. and the way they feel holding them.
 
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