Warmoth Les Paul

[peter.k]

Before I ask a question, let me say that one of my main guitars is a 1977 Ibanez les Paul with a bolt on neck. So I  am not a set neck snob :icon_biggrin:

I am interested in why someone would build a Les Paul bolt on neck from Warmoth. Is it because of the custom build aspect (get exactly what you want), superior product from Warmoth, etc....

As I said, I don't care about the set neck/ bolt on debate. I still play my Ibanez bolt on as it is such a killer guitar.

I have always loved the double cut LP's. I will not look at them in the showcase :dontknow:

 

[DangerousR6]

Is it because of the custom build aspect (get exactly what you want), superior product from Warmoth, etc....

I think you answered your own question... :icon_biggrin:

 

[nexrex]

Is it because of the custom build aspect (get exactly what you want), superior product from Warmoth, etc....

I think you answered your own question... :icon_biggrin:

Agreed, Gibson's quality control right now is non existent.  I was talking to my local guitar tech, and he sees a lot of new LP's that need re-fret work and leveling.

 

[Tipperman]

Warmoth is definitely the way to go for me. Gibson LPs aren't doing too hot, plus you can completely customize everything. Definitely worth it, very very good end results. Plus, the gibson nitro is gross. Warmoth finish is nice and thin, whereas my old Gibson LP wasn't thin.... it was actually pretty damn thick.

 

[rockskate4x]

I just prefer the tweakability of a bolt-on setup. The neck can be removed when it needs work, or replaced entirely if you want to try a different tone wood or neck profile with your guitar, but no one around here tweaks that much  :icon_jokercolor:

 

[peter.k]

Thanks for the comments guys. .....gas building up.....a tweakable Les Paul. I have to build the Tele body I just bought first......

 

[Ace Flibble]

Right now Gibsons aren't worth looking at until you hit the Custom Shop models. Once you get into the £3,500+ Custom Shop guitars, Gibson are still the way to go. The quality there is astounding, to a level that Warmoth can't begin to match.

Those are the top models though. The regular <£2,000 Gibsons are pretty much garbage these days. It seems to be running in cycles; Gibson started great, went bad, got great again and now they're headed downwards again. Give it another three or four years and they'll get their act togther. Until then, if you want a good gibson-style guitar for under Custom Shop prices then you've either got to hope you score a good deal on an older second hand guitar, go to a private luthier or smaller company to make you a copy, pick up a MIJ model (Epiphone Elitists and ESP Edwards guitars both beat the hell out of any standard production Gibson)  or you need to build it yourself with Warmoth.

 

[ORCRiST]

Right now Gibsons aren't worth looking at until you hit the Custom Shop models. Once you get into the £3,500+ Custom Shop guitars, Gibson are still the way to go. The quality there is astounding, to a level that Warmoth can't begin to match.

Those are the top models though. The regular <£2,000 Gibsons are pretty much garbage these days. It seems to be running in cycles; Gibson started great, went bad, got great again and now they're headed downwards again. Give it another three or four years and they'll get their act togther. Until then, if you want a good gibson-style guitar for under Custom Shop prices then you've either got to hope you score a good deal on an older second hand guitar, go to a private luthier or smaller company to make you a copy, pick up a MIJ model (Epiphone Elitists and ESP Edwards guitars both beat the hell out of any standard production Gibson)  or you need to build it yourself with Warmoth.

Yeah, I'll take an ESP Edwards over anything Gibson or Fender has made. Ever.

 

[hannaugh]

Because you can get something like this for well under $2000:

After having had mine for 3 years, the new Gibsons I play in the shops feel like cheap pieces of crap to me.  My Warmoth just feels better.  I like the SD pickups a lot better than Gibson Burstbuckers too. 

 

[Orpheo]

@hannaugh. Indeed,nice guitar.

About that comment that warmoth can't begin to match gibsons quality when going over 3500. I don't agree,sorry. I find Gibson's,also in that pricerange (les Paul's,to be exact) to feel feeble,like a toy,not a premium instrument at all.but perhaps that's because i love warmoth and the stuff they make,which happens to be exactly what i want...

 

[nexrex]

@hannaugh. Indeed,nice guitar.

About that comment that warmoth can't begin to match gibsons quality when going over 3500. I don't agree,sorry. I find Gibson's,also in that pricerange (les Paul's,to be exact) to feel feeble,like a toy,not a premium instrument at all.but perhaps that's because i love warmoth and the stuff they make,which happens to be exactly what i want...

I agree with hannaugh and orpheo. You really can't beat Warmoth for level of customization. I have played Gibson custom LP's that just didn't feel right at all. The quality just wasn't there.

 

[hannaugh]

The Heritage LPs are what the Gibsons should be... but Warmoths are cheaper and basically just as nice if you do a good job setting it up.  If I had to have a set-neck LP though, I'd save up for a Heritage, not a Gibby. 

 

[Ace Flibble]

You really can't beat Warmoth for level of customization.

Customisation has no bearing on quality. That's something that far too few people realise. They pick up a guitar that doesn't have specs that match what they require and so they label it as poorly made junk. You need to learn to separate build quality from specification. I don't like paper-thin Ibanez necks but I wouldn't say an Ibanez Prestige guitar was low quality.

Warmoth make great parts, considering the price. Of course by making a guitar out of custom-ordered parts you're getting a high level of flexibility and can get the spec that matches your needs best. Neither point means they are actually truly top quality though. Contrary to popular belief, PRS Private Stock guitars are not £12,000 just because of the name on the headstock. An ESP Custom Shop does not set you back six grand because of the reputation of the brand and the bragging rights it gives you. Gibson Custom Shop guitars are not just production models with an extra 5 minutes buffing and a higher price tag. You may not like the specifications of them but in terms of sheer quality these sorts of operations can not be beaten, certainly not by companies like Warmoth and USACG.

Again, as far as I'm concerned the production Gibsons are a waste and any Warmoth build or MIJ copy will be on par with, if not better than, a production Gibson and cost you less. But don't think for one second that they can compete with the real top-end. BMWs are nice cars but a Veyron will smoke it every time.

 

[nexrex]

You really can't beat Warmoth for level of customization.

Customisation has no bearing on quality. That's something that far too few people realise. They pick up a guitar that doesn't have specs that match what they require and so they label it as poorly made junk. You need to learn to separate build quality from specification. I don't like paper-thin Ibanez necks but I wouldn't say an Ibanez Prestige guitar was low quality.

Warmoth make great parts, considering the price. Of course by making a guitar out of custom-ordered parts you're getting a high level of flexibility and can get the spec that matches your needs best. Neither point means they are actually truly top quality though. Contrary to popular belief, PRS Private Stock guitars are not £12,000 just because of the name on the headstock. An ESP Custom Shop does not set you back six grand because of the reputation of the brand and the bragging rights it gives you. Gibson Custom Shop guitars are not just production models with an extra 5 minutes buffing and a higher price tag. You may not like the specifications of them but in terms of sheer quality these sorts of operations can not be beaten, certainly not by companies like Warmoth and USACG.

Again, as far as I'm concerned the production Gibsons are a waste and any Warmoth build or MIJ copy will be on par with, if not better than, a production Gibson and cost you less. But don't think for one second that they can compete with the real top-end. BMWs are nice cars but a Veyron will smoke it every time.

I never actually said that. My main argument was that Warmoth allows you to customize pretty much every element of your build. Their exceptional build quality  and QA is a complete separate issue.

 

[elgravos]

I know I rub it in on the forums here and there but I just thought I would mention that my 2006 LP standard  is great.  Not a toy, not even close.  High quality, high end guitar that is just as good from a build quality as any warmoth I own.  I do think Gibson that have a QC problem.  However, if you want one, just go and try a whole bunch.  They certainly built a fair few guitars every day.  If you are willing to look, you will be able to find a good one.  I would say you're average GC probably carries 20 or more LPs and at least 2 of those will be flawless, and will play and sound great.  Sure, I know all 20 of them should be in grade A condition at $2k plus - but it adds a little spice.  Makes finding the right one all the more rewarding.  If you're prepared to spend 2 grand on a guitar that you've played and don't like, then you have another problem entirely.  I know I digress a little, but I just think it needs saying: there are good ones out there still being made today.  No need to go custom shop or spend $5k on a VOS model.

 

[Orpheo]

@ace fibble

I can except Gibson cs and ESP cs etc etc being better than warmoth,if you ggive some reasoning behind your statement. I find ESP cs nit worth their money. They sound too thin and nit broad enough compared to my warmoth lp's. Gibson,well,their guitars are so far off,they almost become straight again. Dull tone,bad fretwork,unappealing tops,mushy,nasal pickups,bad hardware,etc etc.

Nah,i know what i like,and stick to that.IMHO the customshop moniker is just a name to give legitimacy to a higher pricetag, and to differentiate from their normal stuff,they take lightweight mahogany,so no chambering is needed,and a longer necktenon,which doesn't even guarantee a better tone. 

A good neckjoint should always be there on a $2000 guitar. Same goes for hardware. On a $2000 guitar i don't accept a zinc bridge and tailstop,brass at least.  Nor do i accept a sloppy fret and nutjob.on customshoo instruments that's better,but not ideal or to my standards.

I once took my first warmoth to a Gibson dealer,and that seasoned seller was in shock when he played my guitar.the tone,the playability,the looks and woods ... He stated that my 1200$ LP was at least as good as the cs les Paul's he had.

In the end it depends on how well you assemble the guitar.the bare stuff though,the woods and fretjob and tolerances,are IMHO better/tight er at warmoths than at Gibson.

 

[elgravos]

I would certainly support that.  Provided the parts are good, then it's all down to assembly.  If I had built any of my warmoths myself, they would probably be pretty awful guitars.  I'm just not good at building stuff.  Fortunately, I have the good luck of having a very competent luthier who will do the work for me.  Net result, the guitars come out top notch.  Though in the interest of full disclosure, I would point out that I also bring all my other guitars in to him on occasion for fretwork, set up, etc., including my LP.  As a result, they all play great and he has a lot to do with that, certainly more so than the Gibson QC team.

 

[dangeloguitars]

I'm a strong advocate for the "Bolt On" for several reasons. Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against guitars with set-in necks, I own a couple and I enjoy them.
Production costs for a "set in" neck are actually cheaper since it's a matter of glueing the joint and inserting the neck. There's more that goes into the bolt on. However, for a a bolt on the fit needs to be as perfect as possible and secured as tight as possible (without damaging the wood of course). Warmoth has done well with the neck/pocket fit although I wouldn't mind if it were a bit more snug. The tighter the fit, the better the tone and sustain (and yes, there are other factors, many others). Personally I'd take direct wood to wood contact over a glue joint any day, even a contoured heel with less mass. The more wood to wood contact the better. I have great respect for Gibson (I've worked on many) and I like the SG. If you've ever removed the pickguard and exposed the glue joint, you know how little body/neck contact there is. Not to mention the glue between the two. Just sayin'.

 

[reluctant-builder]

I have two set-neck Hagstrom Swedes, which are basically LP "copies" though, to me, they're guitars inspired by the Les Paul with some improvements in balance and body shape.

I love the way they both play, but I find that -- on set necks -- the upper frets are not as easy to play as with bolt-ons. I've got pick-pocket fingers so, even without a contoured heel, I have no trouble reaching any of the upper frets on my Strat, and I imagine the same would be true of a Warmoth LP. That's just inference, though. But it's certainly true of my Strat versus my Hags.

What a beauty! And I love the toggle positioned perfectly for the hand sweep.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

I can't accept any company's cs is automatically better than anything else with no explanation other than, "it just is".  The nicer hardware upgrade, does ESP, Fender, Gibson, Ibanez, PRS have access to any hardware you or I don't?  The PRS stuff and possibly Edge Pro from Ibby might be a little harder to come by just because you have to get it from them, but that doesn't necessarily make it better quality.  If you call any of those custom shops, would you get to actually choose your top wood or fretboard wood from existing stock?  I put hardware on an even keel with any cs because it's up to you to outsource it.  Same with pickups and all other electronics.  Wood selection, advantage Warmoth.  Fitability, I'd hope a name brand cs would be as good as Warmoth, but I've never had cs parts unassembled in front of me for comparison, so I can only speculate.  The dye jobs I've seen on this board and on other brands 3K+ models are comparable, but I do know some custom shops will let you order "off the menu" finishes, whereas Warmoth leaves you with a list to choose from or one off in stock items.  So the biggest difference is always the setup.  A cs has 50 year veterans as well as new hires.  Which one are you getting?  A W setup, you can do it or take it somewhere for a cs type setup.  It comes down to basically, do you want to buy something done and ready to go, or coordinate all of it yourself?