Warmoth #3: Short Scale Jazz Bass - Planning Mode!

[hannaugh]

Okay guys, I figure it is time I announced that I am probably going to be building Warmoth #3 in the fall, and it is going to be a 30" short scale Jazz bass. 

I am most likely going to sell Blondie, my Lace Helix bass, in August or September in order to finance this one.  I like Blondie in general, it's a decent instrument and the body shape is very comfortable, but I don't want to play a 34" behemoth anymore.  When I was just playing occasionally for fun, it was fine, but now I actually have a bass amp (finally), and I'm taking lessons, so it's time to get something that fits me a little better.  It probably won't get me all of the cash I need, but it should be a pretty good head start. 

That said... I have no idea what I'm doing.  I don't know anything about bass hardware or pickups.  I also don't have a totally clear picture in my head of what I want it to look like yet.  For a while I was thinking of BK or zebrawood with a Tobacco Burst, then I was thinking maybe walnut with a clear matt finish, then randomly today I started thinking maybe Daphne Blue with a tortie pickguard.  I'm really having trouble deciding what I want it to look like.  Tone-wise, I tend to like to listen to music where the bass is pretty tight and has a little bite to it, but I think since this is probably going to be the only bass I have around for a long time, I need an all-purpose workhorse.  I'm probably going to play mostly classic rock to blues style stuff. 

The only things I have already decided are:
- raw neck
- light weight body
- not horrifically expensive on the woods (so not a lot of rosewood or koa)
- fretted

So... any input or ideas would be appreciated.  Pics and sound clip examples are good.  Thanks, guys. 

 

[tfarny]

My thoughts: 30" is too short and floppy for me - like a 24" scale guitar. I need the snap in the strings. 32" is fine for me. a 30" scale is equivalent to a full step detune, then capo 2, on a standard bass. You might try that and play around with it for a while.
Except for that, a lightweight exotic wood jazz bass with classic sounds sounds just about perfect. Maybe a short scale g4?

 

[hannaugh]

I'm definitely getting a Jazz shape.  So far, I've gone out and tried a couple of 30" basses, and they felt fine to me.  Wouldn't the shorter strings feel tighter than the longer ones?  :icon_scratch: 

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Hardware wise, I believe the shortscale's only tuning machine ream is the 3/8".  The ones W sells or Hipshots will do fine.  For bridges, the Gotoh 201 is the Fender 5 hole top load that they've used forever.  There's plenty of aftermarket versions of that out there, it seems everyone makes one.  I always prefer a string thru, but the advantages are debatable and fodder for forums it seems.  Pickups, ask around.  Many flavors out there, just get a route that's versatile enough to swap.  It seems every configuration imaginable is available in a J housing.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

No.

 

[drewfx]

Tone-wise, I tend to like to listen to music where the bass is pretty tight and has a little bite to it, but I think since this is probably going to be the only bass I have around for a long time, I need an all-purpose workhorse.  I'm probably going to play mostly classic rock to blues style stuff. 

The only things I have already decided are:
- raw neck
- light weight body
- not horrifically expensive on the woods (so not a lot of rosewood or koa)
- fretted

I would say "pretty tight and has a little bite to it" is sort of the opposite extreme of a short scale's natural tone, which, somewhat like playing 5 frets up on a lower string on a guitar, is a bit fatter and looser.

Which doesn't mean you can't go there, but means I would pick brighter woods and pickups, and possibly active electronics. And of course it also means plucking nearer the bridge.

I'd probably just go with a light ash body (with the cap/finish of your choice) and a maple(ish) neck.

And for some reason I think a jazz bass with anything other than 2 jazz PU's looks a little bit funny to me, so I'd get it routed for 2 jazz PU's and then figure out where you want to go from there.

 

[bob7point7]

I think any of the body options you listed would look pretty cool. I've wanted a BK in tobacco burst for a while now. The 30" scale should give you a strong fundamental with fewer harmonics than a longer scale bass, so it wuld probably be best to go with bright neck woods. I love my canary/pau ferro 32" neck. For pickups, I don't think you can go wrong with J's. I prefer noiseless because I love he sound of a J neck pickup soloed (single coil Js are hum cancelling when used together). I'm currently using SD classic stacks, which hve a nice sound, but I want to try some Nordstrands. I put stainless frets on both of my Warmoth basses because I've noticed more fret wear on my basses than on my guitars. I think all of the short scal necks are reamed for BML Lite tuners, which are very nice. The Gotoh 201 bridge is also a very nice piece. I'm looking forward to following this build. Both of my 32" basses turned out to be super comfortable and tone monsters. Good luck!

 

[vtpcnk]

i think the jazz/precision bass pickup combo is cool. i think both dimarzio and seymour duncan offer such a pair. or even used fender's aerodyne bass pickups on ebay.

but on such guitars i have been surprised to see that there is no pickup selector. you just turn down the volume switch of the pickup which you don't want to use. so a pickup selector is an option you might want to include.

 

[vtpcnk]

this is slightly out of topic. but if you want a cheap short scale bass, the rogue violin 'beatle bass' sells new for $200. you can get it used on ebay for 60% of that. seems to enjoy positive reviews on the net.

 

[hannaugh]

Okay, I looked it up online about how short scale basses have to have lower string tension to be tuned correctly and blah blah blah, and now it makes sense.  I spent the last half hour extremely confused by what you guys were saying, especially because I tried detuning and capoing my current bass, and the tension is higher doing it that way, not lower.  But now I understand.

I tried a Danelectro 30", and I remember I was okay with the feel and everything. 

So you guys definitely think I need woods with a lot of punch it seems... okay, so that means maple, bubinga, pau ferro, ebony, and walnut would be good.  Okay, this is a good place to start thinking. 

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

i think the jazz/precision bass pickup combo is cool. i think both dimarzio and seymour duncan offer such a pair. or even used fender's aerodyne bass pickups on ebay.

but on such guitars i have been surprised to see that there is no pickup selector. you just turn down the volume switch of the pickup which you don't want to use. so a pickup selector is an option you might want to include.

I put 2 volumes and a pickup selector on mine and find that it stays in the middle and I manipulate each volume for the appropriate blend of each volume anyway. 

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Okay, I looked it up online about how short scale basses have to have lower string tension to be tuned correctly and blah blah blah, and now it makes sense.  I spent the last half hour extremely confused by what you guys were saying, especially because I tried detuning and capoing my current bass, and the tension is higher doing it that way, not lower.  But now I understand.

I tried a Danelectro 30", and I remember I was okay with the feel and everything. 

So you guys definitely think I need woods with a lot of punch it seems... okay, so that means maple, bubinga, pau ferro, ebony, and walnut would be good.  Okay, this is a good place to start thinking. 

Without overthinking it, it's just like a Strat vs. LP string tension.  Longer is tighter.  And yes, make that thing bright because you can EQ brightness out, but not always back in.  I had a 30" scale bass some years ago and couldn't stand it.  Then again, navigating 34" scale isn't a problem for me.  I tried a thicker gauge string to get the tension back up, but the 30" scale is very mid heavy thuddish.  But, the few women bass players I know have gravitated to that scale simply for playability.

 

[hannaugh]

Playability is what I need.  Having perfect tone isn't going to matter if I injure my wrists and hands trying to manuever around something that is way too big for me.  I'll do the best I can, and I'm sure if I pick everything out carefully, I'll end up with something that I am satisfied with. 

 

[kboman]

I don't have much to add re: sound/hardware, but I do think a green dye top would match your previous Warmoth builds beautifully. Zebrawood over alder, white pickguard?

 

[hannaugh]

I'm thinking I want to go a little more natural or a solid paint on this one.  Design ideas:

I do like this one from the showcase though:

 

[line6man]

I don't have much to add re: sound/hardware, but I do think a green dye top would match your previous Warmoth builds beautifully. Zebrawood over alder, white pickguard?

You would cover up Zebrawood with plastic!?

Hannah, three things I would suggest-
1. Ultralight tuners! They are great for keeping basses balanced.

2. Avoid single coil J pickups, unless you really love the tone, because they are noisy beasts. You can get somewhat close to a single coil tone with various types of humcancelling Js, if you're not picky. (To my knowledge, most players prefer split coils to stacked coils, sidewinders or rails.)

3. You might want to think about using a soapbar casing, because, if you are not entirely sure of what you want tonally, the soapbar casing will allow you to choose nearly any kind of pickup. Single coils, dual coils, quad coils, split coils, narrow or wide apertures, etc.

 

[Jack Michaelson]

I vote Daphne Blue and Tort.

 

[tubby.twins]

2. Avoid single coil J pickups, unless you really love the tone, because they are noisy beasts. You can get somewhat close to a single coil tone with various types of humcancelling Js, if you're not picky. (To my knowledge, most players prefer split coils to stacked coils, sidewinders or rails.)

3. You might want to think about using a soapbar casing, because, if you are not entirely sure of what you want tonally, the soapbar casing will allow you to choose nearly any kind of pickup. Single coils, dual coils, quad coils, split coils, narrow or wide apertures, etc.

I'm going to agree with #2 but disagree with #3.  Hum-cancelling J pickups are definitely amazing inventions.  In Hannaugh's case, I think it might be better to start out with a dual-J pickup configuration, since there are a LOT of J-style pickups out there, each with their own tonal signature.  They're easy to replace and easy to resell later on, if you don't like what you hear.

If you get a body with two J pickups, you can always expand them later to the Bartolini "BC" size (or larger) which will make it possible to use some of the nice soapbar pickups out there.  You'll need a router, a template and an appropriate template bit (with the bearing on TOP) to do this.  The big downside with soapbar pickups is standardization: in the absence of a universal standard shape (i.e. developed by Fender back in the 60's) pretty much every pickup maker started making their own shapes and sizes.

If soapbars look like the right way to go later on (after you've determined that dual-J pickups don't work) then I would recommend the Bartolini "BC" size (3.95" x 1.25") as a good compromise, because you can get dual-coil humbucking pickups from a number of manufacturers: Bartolini (of course), Nordstrand and perhaps SGD as well.  The BC size is slightly larger than the J pickup routes in every dimension, so the routing job will be "clean" - as opposed to the EMG35 size (3.5" x 1.5") which would leave bits of the J pickup routes sticking out on the ends.  Not so good for aesthetics.

A good stiff exotic neck wood like Bubinga will help to counteract the natural tendency for a short-scale bass to sound warm and thumpy.  It will tighten up the tone nicely.  Plus, Warmoth does an excellent job with Bubinga, and it feels very nice to play when raw.

 

[line6man]

2. Avoid single coil J pickups, unless you really love the tone, because they are noisy beasts. You can get somewhat close to a single coil tone with various types of humcancelling Js, if you're not picky. (To my knowledge, most players prefer split coils to stacked coils, sidewinders or rails.)

3. You might want to think about using a soapbar casing, because, if you are not entirely sure of what you want tonally, the soapbar casing will allow you to choose nearly any kind of pickup. Single coils, dual coils, quad coils, split coils, narrow or wide apertures, etc.

I'm going to agree with #2 but disagree with #3.  Hum-cancelling J pickups are definitely amazing inventions.  In Hannaugh's case, I think it might be better to start out with a dual-J pickup configuration, since there are a LOT of J-style pickups out there, each with their own tonal signature.  They're easy to replace and easy to resell later on, if you don't like what you hear.

If you get a body with two J pickups, you can always expand them later to the Bartolini "BC" size (or larger) which will make it possible to use some of the nice soapbar pickups out there.  You'll need a router, a template and an appropriate template bit (with the bearing on TOP) to do this.   The big downside with soapbar pickups is standardization: in the absence of a universal standard shape (i.e. developed by Fender back in the 60's) pretty much every pickup maker started making their own shapes and sizes.

If soapbars look like the right way to go later on (after you've determined that dual-J pickups don't work) then I would recommend the Bartolini "BC" size (3.95" x 1.25") as a good compromise, because you can get dual-coil humbucking pickups from a number of manufacturers: Bartolini (of course), Nordstrand and perhaps SGD as well.  The BC size is slightly larger than the J pickup routes in every dimension, so the routing job will be "clean" - as opposed to the EMG35 size (3.5" x 1.5") which would leave bits of the J pickup routes sticking out on the ends.  Not so good for aesthetics.

A good stiff exotic neck wood like Bubinga will help to counteract the natural tendency for a short-scale bass to sound warm and thumpy.  It will tighten up the tone nicely.  Plus, Warmoth does an excellent job with Bubinga, and it feels very nice to play when raw.

You know, I hadn't thought of it, but J pickups probably are a lot easier to sell than soapbars, as there are WAY more people out there with Fenders, or Fender copies than any other bass. :blob7:

Still, the soapbar case is the ultimate in versatility, if you can make it fit the aesthetic of the instrument.

 

[Corey P.]

Add me to the Bubinga camp - awesome in every regard.  Ebony or Wenge are both great fretboard choices.

I'm extrememly impressed by Hipshot's hardware, and the ultralight tuners are a great idea.

I favor brass bridges, and personally have a Leo Quan (Badass II) on my 4-string jazz, and I'd recommend a Leo Quan bridge if there wasn't a ridiculous markup on them at the moment on ebay, etc. - they've been swamped supplying Fender and most online vendors are back-ordered (Eric W. pointed this out to me).  I like the Hipshot A-style a lot, too, which is what I'll be using on my Jaguar 5.  String-through really doesn't seem to make any audible difference, though the sharp angle over the saddle is nice in terms of getting the desirable kind of string tension.

Pickup-wise you can't really get punchier than a Musicman pickup in the "sweet spot" about halfway between the neck and bridge (not sure if this differs with a short scale?), and I'd consider a Nordstrand MM4.2 with SGD's two-band preamp (link).  A P-style pickup would also give you a nice punch, and P/MM is a combination I've been wanting to try for a long while.

That said, that quilited short scale Jazz body is absolutely gorgeous.  I love the EMG J-set for my 4-string, but it might not be everyone's cup of tea.  Again, I'd go with a 2-band preamp, and EMG's solderless installation is great if you're looking to go DIY.  I've never really heard a bad aftermarket Jazz pickup from the usual suspects (SD, Fender Noisless, Lindy Fralin, EMG, etc.), beyond not much caring for DiMarzio J pickups when I heard them.

Another great option is the Squier Vintage Modified Jaguar Basses - you really can't argue with a $200 price tag and could swap anything you're unhappy with with ease.