Wanna talk resale value?

[erogenousjones17]

We all seem to be in agreement that a custom Warmoth project won't fetch that much on the resale market. Yesterday I was in a music store and found a Warmoth J-bass with a walnut body and wenge neck.

Asking price? $1,250.

Discuss.  :laughing7:

 

[line6man]

Details!

What were the pickups and hardware?

Was this a basic Jazz, or did it have any nice features?

 

[erogenousjones17]

Standard J-bass configuration, though I couldn't tell you what brand of pickups. Fretted raw wenge neck and a simple clear gloss over the walnut body. Other than the fancy woods, it was rather plain. It also had a tortoise pickguard, which I wasn't totally sold on (for once). I'm not a bassist, so a friend of mine played it. It sounded good, with lots of punch, but it weighed a ton!

 

[line6man]

Standard J-bass configuration, though I couldn't tell you what brand of pickups. Fretted raw wenge neck and a simple clear gloss over the walnut body. Other than the fancy woods, it was rather plain. It also had a tortoise pickguard, which I wasn't totally sold on (for once). I'm not a bassist, so a friend of mine played it. It sounded good, with lots of punch, but it weighed a ton!

A pickguard on a Walnut body!?
No thank you, that sounds hideous!

 

[BigBeard]

I seem to think that unfortunately these guitars aren't worth what we are willing to put into them, in terms of resale value


They are like a done up hot rod car.  I go to car and bike shows all summer long, and you always see these really nice custom hot rods and chopper bikes with for sale signs and price tags of $40,000!!!  Then you see the owners 'spec' list, it will usually say on a 40K car "over 75K invested" 

Think about it this way:  someone can call up the turtle and  order themselves to spec a 54 strat or a 59 les paul.  Do they have a 54 strat or 59 les paul when the day is done?  the simple answer is no.  Yes they have a replica, kind of like those replica shelby cobras you see, or a reproduced 32 ford body.  Warmoth guitars, unfortunately, are only worth what you paid for it, to YOU.  I mean, if someone really wants a Fender Stratocaster, a warmoth isn't a fender, and it never will be.  It is unfortunate that it is this way, but there is just no demand for their parts finished as a guitar, when someone can very easily just call warmoth themselves and buy exactly what you are offering....

I'm not saying that they aren't worth anything,  mine is priceless to me.  It has everything I ever wanted in a single guitar.  I honestly have no need for another guitar, ever!!  Now that doesn't mean that I won't ever build again, it means that I nailed it the first time.  I got exactly what I wanted with no compromises!!!  I took my time and built it right.  Now if someone offered me $2k for it, I'd of course hand it over....but that isn't going to happen anytime soon!!!  My time building the guitar, well is worthless, because I was going to build it anyway....So you can't use the argument that your time is worth something, unless you are a professional luthier. 

I guess what I am trying to say is that if you are looking for an investment, Warmoth is not the way to go.  But if you are looking for a 'driver' someting that you can use, and use hard, they are.  I know I am more careful with vintage instrument that I know is worth something than I am with my Warmoth!! 

All Warmoth guitars are unfortunately for us in this discussion, are really fancy pieces of wood that hold guitar parts.  That's it.  They are what they are. 

And something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.  Personally, I would never buy someone's completed Warmoth for more than I could buy the parts for, and I would use that as the high end when it came to negotiating price. 

Now I would say that the bass in question would be a great bargain at half the asking price.  I have about $800 in my warmoth all in.  I bought mine unfinished, and the rest was parts.  Would you pay $800 for my guitar when you could do the same thing in your basement?  I doubt it.

The only thing that may bring the value of their parts up would be if they stopped production of their products, just locked the doors one day.  But as it stands, they are really only worth what an end table of similar size is worth.  Sucks, but it is what it is!!

I feel bad for sellers I see on ebay with their finished W's and see what they think they are worth.  They hardly sell.  I mean really if I had 2K to blow on a guitar, believe me I would be thinking about something with a name on it.  But for $800, you can't get what you can build!!!

Really, what makes a warmoth licensed part any better than an all parts or mighty mite or Eden?  The choices they offer.  That's it!  And that they are USA made, by people who make a decent wage.  I wish these completed instruments were worth what we wish they were worth.... I'd build one a month just to sell!!

 

[Steve_Karl]

Go back in 2 years and let us know if the price has been reduced.    :icon_jokercolor:

 

[ORCRiST]

I feel bad for sellers I see on ebay with their finished W's and see what they think they are worth.  They hardly sell.  I mean really if I had 2K to blow on a guitar, believe me I would be thinking about something with a name on it.  But for $800, you can't get what you can build!!!

I've got 2k into my W strat atm (and its still not finished), and I can tell you I wouldn't waste my money on a strat made by Fender. IMO, a $2K Fender would be about a $1K guitar (if that) and $1K worth of name, then I'd probably have to spend another $1k on top of that in aftermarket parts just to get to the guitar I really wanted in the first place.

 

[BigBeard]

I feel bad for sellers I see on ebay with their finished W's and see what they think they are worth.  They hardly sell.  I mean really if I had 2K to blow on a guitar, believe me I would be thinking about something with a name on it.  But for $800, you can't get what you can build!!!

I've got 2k into my W strat atm (and its still not finished), and I can tell you I wouldn't waste my money on a strat made by Fender. IMO, a $2K Fender would be about a $1K guitar (if that) and $1K worth of name, then I'd probably have to spend another $1k on top of that in aftermarket parts just to get to the guitar I really wanted in the first place.

Oh don't get me wrong I totally agree with you on this.  My point is taken here a little out of context.  What my point was, is that I don't have the money to buy what I can build.  I paid $549 for my American Standard Strat in 1992, brand spanking new and shipped.....  That is about all a Strat is worth if you ask me.  I honestly haven't even looked at new  Fenders.  I know the Mexi strats are going for the kind of money I paid in '92.... Doubt it if I'll ever buy a new Fender again.  I can't justify spending that kind of money on an outsourced product with an american companies name on it.............

That being said, I don't want to get into a discussion about my wife's "American made"  Chevrolet HHR, that was built in Mexico.  You have no idea how shocked I was when I found out what it means when the VIN starts with 3.  They don't print the final assembly plant on the window stickers anymore, unless it is an american plant....  :icon_scratch:

 

[Twelvebar]

There are a couple reasons you'll almost never get your money back selling a Warmoth.

Warmoth only sell parts. They aren't a finished instrument manufacturer. That means no one knows what kind of care and attention YOU put into your guitar. On top of that the general guitar playing populace has no idea about Warmoth. Sort of a double whammy. People like to stick with well known commodities, a Warmoth put together by some random guy is a huge risk.

Then if you examine the people who do know about Warmoth, sort of a different side to the same coin. Even if I trust the parts manufacturer, I have no idea about your workmanship.
Also any of us that do know about Warmoth know that it's real strength is customization. So for us a lot of the fun, and practicality is that we pick and choose within our budgets to come up with as close to an ideal for us end product as we can. You would have to move off the price you paid by a nice margin for me to think about your project. presumably you picked out parts for yourself, not me. So if you offer the same price (let alone any kind of mark up,) why would I not just go to 'W' and browse away till I found something i really love.
This also begs the question, if the prior owner went through the selection process, and made his dream axe, what is wrong with it, why is he selling?

Warmoth buyers are usually inclined to do most of the guitar work (some paint, some don't, but most assemble, and solder,) so they're not as inclined to want to compensate you for labor they would cheerfully do. In short, Warmoth totally fill their niche. They do such a great job filling the needs and wants of their customer base, there is no way for a 2nd hand market of their goods to thrive. Brand name guitars depreciate a lot, with a few notable exceptions. Off brand stuff is doomed to a price plummet. Warmoth turns quality part after quality part. No scarcity to drive demand.

You might have the greatest guitar ever, but I can also build the greatest guitar ever, and it will be tailored to my wants. makes a tough sell.

 

[chrisg]

There are a couple reasons you'll almost never get your money back selling a Warmoth.

Warmoth only sell parts. They aren't a finished instrument manufacturer. That means no one knows what kind of care and attention YOU put into your guitar. On top of that the general guitar playing populace has no idea about Warmoth. Sort of a double whammy. People like to stick with well known commodities, a Warmoth put together by some random guy is a huge risk.

Then if you examine the people who do know about Warmoth, sort of a different side to the same coin. Even if I trust the parts manufacturer, I have no idea about your workmanship.
Also any of us that do know about Warmoth know that it's real strength is customization. So for us a lot of the fun, and practicality is that we pick and choose within our budgets to come up with as close to an ideal for us end product as we can. You would have to move off the price you paid by a nice margin for me to think about your project. presumably you picked out parts for yourself, not me. So if you offer the same price (let alone any kind of mark up,) why would I not just go to 'W' and browse away till I found something i really love.
This also begs the question, if the prior owner went through the selection process, and made his dream axe, what is wrong with it, why is he selling?

Warmoth buyers are usually inclined to do most of the guitar work (some paint, some don't, but most assemble, and solder,) so they're not as inclined to want to compensate you for labor they would cheerfully do. In short, Warmoth totally fill their niche. They do such a great job filling the needs and wants of their customer base, there is no way for a 2nd hand market of their goods to thrive. Brand name guitars depreciate a lot, with a few notable exceptions. Off brand stuff is doomed to a price plummet. Warmoth turns quality part after quality part. No scarcity to drive demand.

You might have the greatest guitar ever, but I can also build the greatest guitar ever, and it will be tailored to my wants. makes a tough sell.

Welcome Twelvebar - I read some of your input to Ceri's projects on the Fender Community forum.
I completely agree with you regarding the customisation aspect of a Warmoth build - my custom may not be anyone else's, and even if it was they could simply go and order the parts and build their own, along the way deriving the same level of satisfation that we do in building our guitars.
The only value in a used Warmoth is in its parts - if you wish to sell, break itdown and part it out.

 

[ORCRiST]

Yeah Twelvebar, Welcome! I've been following Ceri's threads for a while - nice to see you visiting the Dark Side of The Force!  :icon_biggrin: Now, if
we could only get Ceri over here...

ORC

 

[Alfang]

If you could buy Warmoths cheapest unfinnished bodies and paddle head necks ( cut your own headstock shape ) then apply a finnish like Tonar, fit the guitar with good gotoh hardware, and TroubledTrebles pups, And do a great set-up ,I'm thinking your into it for less than $500

You sell it for 6-7 hundred bucks and get some good customer feedback, your in business,  the secret being, your labor is gonna have to be free till you get a reputation,  Now it's not a Warmoth, it's whatever you name it.

And I bet warmoth will supply your parts without the stamps in the neckpocket and heels, and buy a bunch of fancy neckplates from dangerous

 

[m4rk0]

If you could buy Warmoths cheapest unfinnished bodies and paddle head necks ( cut your own headstock shape ) then apply a finnish like Tonar, fit the guitar with good gotoh hardware, and TroubledTrebles pups, And do a great set-up ,I'm thinking your into it for less than $500

You sell it for 6-7 hundred bucks and get some good customer feedback, your in business,  the secret being, your labor is gonna have to be free till you get a reputation,   Now it's not a Warmoth, it's whatever you name it.

And I bet warmoth will supply your parts without the stamps in the neckpocket and heels, and buy a bunch of fancy neckplates from dangerous

Slap your own logo on, no unusual specs, and you can ask even more.. many boutique builders, or relic builders (nash, etc) do this and make money on them.
a local music store has asked me to do this for him, but I am not comfortable doing this until I have designed my own headstock shape

 

[m4rk0]

actually, I heard that in Europe (Holland more specifically) there are various guitar "builders" that sell their own brand guitars, made out of Mighty Mite, All parts or Warmoth parts!

I guess if Pensa, Sadowsky, Valley Arts, etc can do it, an amateur that can do a good finish and set up, can do it too.... if you are lucky