Unique wiring, how to do it, though?

[Orpheo]

Hi guys!

First of all, all my best for 2010!

I posted this question on another board too, and I just copied my post there, to make it easier on myself I know there are guys here who are very good at wiring too, so, here's my thing:


lately, I stumbled on a new guitar, called 'teye guitars'. its a dutch guy, who lives in Texas, and he makes zemaitis-like guitars. I like 'm, but what I like even more, is his wiring!

I'll explain.

His guitars have 3 humbuckers, 1 5 way switch (blade) and 4 pots.

the 4 pots do the following:

master tone (we all know and love)

mood knob (quote: a filtering device that removes the thickness of the sound and makes the guitar jangly and clean). I could do that too. Its a low cut filter; easily done.

Then we have 2 pots left, and that is a bit of a fiddle.

the 5 way blade does the following combinations: bridge, bridge+middle, bridge+neck, neck+middle, neck.

So... its a schaller superswitch, or something like that.

the volume pots don't work with a fixed pickup, but are flexible. when I select the bridge pickup, one of the volumes will be dedicated to that pickup, but whenever I have 2 at the same time (aka: 3 of the 5 positions!), I have 2 pots working on those pickups. they control whichever 2 pickups are engaged.

my problem is: how can I wire that up?

 

[Dan025]

what, no traditional tone? i can tell how to wire that in as well if you like!

i don't have the time now to draw up a schematic maybe tomorrow.  you may be able to use a strat switch as many have two poles but the 3rd position would be different. with a 4 pole switch 2 commons would be dedicated outputs, one to each volume pot. one pole would go 1 neck, 2 neck, 3 neck, 4 middle, 5 bridge. that way one volume is always in use and you dont have to think about which one is not, also this can eliminate the master if you like. and free up a pot for a traditional tone.
a second pole will go 1 off, 2 middle, 3 bridge, 4 bridge, 5 off. 

as an option you can wire the hot off each pole to the middle lug of each pot for a better blend control. then one outer lug to ground and one to the master volume(optional) and/or to the tone controls. this way one volume does't short the output and reduce the volume of the whole guitar. i dislike this arrangement but it is popular and you may want it.

also you could swap the 5th position of each pole if you find that more strait forward.

 

[Orpheo]

what, no traditional tone? i can tell how to wire that in as well if you like!

i don't have the time now to draw up a schematic maybe tomorrow.  you may be able to use a strat switch as many have two poles but the 3rd position would be different. with a 4 pole switch 2 commons would be dedicated outputs, one to each volume pot. one pole would go 1 neck, 2 neck, 3 neck, 4 middle, 5 bridge. that way one volume is always in use and you dont have to think about which one is not, also this can eliminate the master if you like. and free up a pot for a traditional tone.
a second pole will go 1 off, 2 middle, 3 bridge, 4 bridge, 5 off. 

as an option you can wire the hot off each pole to the middle lug of each pot for a better blend control. then one outer lug to ground and one to the master volume(optional) and/or to the tone controls. this way one volume does't short the output and reduce the volume of the whole guitar. i dislike this arrangement but it is popular and you may want it.

also you could swap the 5th position of each pole if you find that more strait forward.

well, it does have a master tone, and I do know how to do that

the pickup selection goes by a 5 way, and I know how to do that too. thats a superswitch trick, nothing special.

the problem is in the volume pots. that guitar only has 2 volume pots for 3 pickups. if the bridge pickup is on, its got a volume for himself, doh. but if the bridge+middle is on, they BOTH have a volume, but if i go to bridge+neck, the pot which was used for the middle, is being used for the neck pickup. and if I go from neck+bridge to neck+middle, the pot which was linked to the bridge, goes to the middle.

how can one wire that thing up?!

 

[Dan025]

right that is why i use two poles completely independandtly.

the commons are separate outputs and go to separate volumes.

the first pole of the switch is used in all positions and therefore the volume connected to it is as well, this is the primary volume.

the common of the second pole is hooked to the second volume. it controls the rear more pickup of the combo positions.

in the 5th position the bridge is hooked to the first pole and it goes back to the primary volume.

the output of each volume get hooked together and go to the output and tone circuits.

 

[Orpheo]

@dan025: i really think that I should see it, visually... can't make heads or tails out of this

 

[Dan025]

something like this

you may do something different for the low cut with an inductor or something but this is what i threw together.
if you used ganged or concentric pots for the tone and wire them before the volumes you may get better results but this works with all conventional stuff.

 

[Dan025]

sorry about the first post i miss read and thought that there were 3 volumes, 2 to mix pickups and 1 master. i guess i wasn't fully awake. the pic above should show what you are looking for.

 

[MUYFUE]

Wow, that's a cool setup.
I get it, and I know what you're saying. I'm pretty good with wiring, but this is beyond me.
Sorry mang. If you do get it hooked up to work right, post it here! ha!

 

[Orpheo]

hi, the previously posted wiring works!

i do wish to see one small change. how can i get the middle pickup alone, with a volunepot, but also mid+bridge+neck, with a master volume pot.

 

[Dan025]

that could be tricky depending on exactly how you want it to work. do you want to replace existing positions or add those with a push/pull pot?

 

[Orpheo]

that could be tricky depending on exactly how you want it to work. do you want to replace existing positions or add those with a push/pull pot?

according to the guy who makes the guitars I talked about in the first post, he doesn't use push pull pots... I already was able to modify the schematic for push pull pots, to add those tones (not really THAT hard...) but to do it without push pull pots, is hard. perhaps with stereopots? (not concentric, but real stereo).

 

[Orpheo]

@Dan: is it possible to make that 4th pot a spin-a-split for all pickups? perhaps wiring the coiltap-lead of the pickup to one of the other poles of the superswitch, and corresponding to the position, that entire pole goes to that pot, the spin-a-split...

 

[Dan025]

well in a combo position you might need a stereo pot but i beleive that is posible. also with the right pot value or by modifying a pot one tone can cut the middle pup in at 10 so it will act like the push/pull. i think you can get better results by using stereo pots but i believe with some thought it could work without them. a lot depends on if you are willing to make compromises.

 

[Orpheo]

well in a combo position you might need a stereo pot but i beleive that is posible. also with the right pot value or by modifying a pot one tone can cut the middle pup in at 10 so it will act like the push/pull. i think you can get better results by using stereo pots but i believe with some thought it could work without them. a lot depends on if you are willing to make compromises.

I am but its part of the game/fun of reverse-engineering the guy's wiring without having opened one of those guitars (which will void waranty...).

I dont think, by the way, that in a combo position, you need a stereopot...you have 2 poles of the superswitch left over, so why not use those too, with the exact way you wired it, but now with the corresponding positions of those poles for the coiltapwire, and not the hot wire...you just solder the 'output' of the poles to the pot, parallel.

yeah, that will work, I suppose

PS: I saw on youtube how he did the mid only or mid+neck+bridge... using the between 3 and 4 position and the between 2 and 3 position.

I think I'll use this wiring for my own switch, which is a 7 way rotary... I think that will be nice!

 

[Dan025]

you didn't say you had a 7 way rotary! that would've been easy.
if you hook it up like you say it will work but if you are trying to tap 2 pups at the same time the coil tap wires from each pup are effectively hooked together. the pickups will interact a bit and i have no idea if you will notice it or not. it will have some effect on the ability to mix the pups but that might not be too bad.

 

[Orpheo]

you didn't say you had a 7 way rotary! that would've been easy.
if you hook it up like you say it will work but if you are trying to tap 2 pups at the same time the coil tap wires from each pup are effectively hooked together. the pickups will interact a bit and i have no idea if you will notice it or not. it will have some effect on the ability to mix the pups but that might not be too bad.

yeah, sorry, my bad  :icon_jokercolor: At first I wanted to 'recreate' that dude's wiring, and then I realised... ey, why not do it with a 7 way rotary, which I have laying around? Its a 3 pole switch, and the only thing I can get it to do is to select pickups. the 'preset coiltap'thingy we talked about, will absolutly not work cause I really need all 3 poles if it were a 6 pole, it would be a hell of a lot easier!

 

[Dan025]

i've never seen a 7 way rotary, do they make a stacked one with 6 poles?

 

[Orpheo]

i've never seen a 7 way rotary, do they make a stacked one with 6 poles?

no, too bad... I was lucky enough to find one with 3 poles and 7 positions!

 

[Dan025]

what about this or some variation of it?

i just thought of a better compromise but it takes to long to change it  :icon_thumright: maybe you'll figure it out

 

[Orpheo]

ah I see what happens, but thats not the way I like it

the way you did the previous, is how I want it, and that works like a charm