Ultra-bright guitar

[gutter0909]

Did you set the action very low with no relief? Then you could be hearing a noise caused by fret buzz.

I find that some necks can be bright and dry sounding, but it’s normally fixed with the right pickups, or choosing a body wood that is complimentary.

The action is a bit low and the relief is minimal. I noticed there isn't a whole lot of space at the first fret, less than I remember when I initially installed the nut. I may try a different, slightly taller nut. My other basswood guitar has an SD JB and is brighter than my Jackson DXMGT with EMGs but not as bad as this guitar.

After those, pickup swap.

Also, is this guitar the only hardtail of the group? Hardtails often sound brighter than their trem-equipped counterparts IME.

Love the DSL40-CR. Great amp! If all your other guitars sound good through it, I wouldn't look to a speaker swap as a remedy. Fix the guitar first.

I do have 250k pots, so I can swap both of em out. All of my guitars except for my 2 strats are hardtail. I like a lot about the DSL40cr but I have difficulty getting the best sounds out of it at lower volumes since I only ever play at home.

 

[ghostrider]

Hardtails often sound brighter than their trem-equipped counterparts IME.

That's interesting. I hadn't noticed that but, now that you mention it, my brightest guitar does happen to be a hardtail. Any theories on why a hardtail would be brighter?

 

[Hodgo]

The guitar has a microphone (pickups)

Not to be a pedant but pickups are not actual microphones and I think that’s an important distinction to make when we talk about the acoustic influence on guitar tone.

 

[Rick]

First I'd try using different tone settings on the amp and guitar
Then try a different amplifier and see what happens
Then I'd change to mellower strings ...
then saddle swap ...
I've found that the string saver classics tamed down the highs a noticable though not huge amount. (I really like the sound of them) Then use brass saddles, Then use regular tusq saddles which reduce it even more. That guy in kharangbin uses them for example, and he sounds great. Full Tusq didn't work for me though.
Then vol pot swap.
Then tone pot swap
Then pickup swap

After that not sure what else you can do ...

 

[Spud]

First I'd try using different tone settings on the amp and guitar
Then try a different amplifier and see what happens
Then I'd change to mellower strings ...
then saddle swap ...
I've found that the string saver classics tamed down the highs a noticable though not huge amount. (I really like the sound of them) Then use brass saddles, Then use regular tusq saddles which reduce it even more. That guy in kharangbin uses them for example, and he sounds great. Full Tusq didn't work for me though.
Then vol pot swap.
Then tone pot swap
Then pickup swap

After that not sure what else you can do ...

I prefer the gal in Kharungbin..............

 

[aarontunes]

That's interesting. I hadn't noticed that but, now that you mention it, my brightest guitar does happen to be a hardtail. Any theories on why a hardtail would be brighter?

It's a question I've also pondered. My guess is there is typically less mass in the bridge, and perhaps more significantly, hardtails don't vibrate with the strings like a bridge attached to springs will. IOW, there is no dampening effect when the strings are plucked, and usually any dampening will rob high frequencies first.

No, I am not a scientist.

But I am a really good guesser.

 

[Strat Avenger]

My OFR equipped guitars sound brighter than my hardtails, but I also have Graph Tech String Saver Classic saddles on the hardtails.

 

[JohnnyHardtail]

I have a theory that hardtail guitars have reduced damping of the resonances for the neck / body combination. Another difference is due to absence of the trem cavity which makes the body more rigid.

 

[JohnnyHardtail]

Graph-tech saddles kill a lot of brightness. However I don’t see them as a good solution. I tried the vintage hybrid version with steel body with graphtec insert, and it was the same issue for me. They are tone suckers IMO. There seems to be an issue with the way they grip the string and damp the harmonics of string vibration.

 

[gutter0909]

Put the graphtech saddles in and swapped out the Super Distortion and ProTrack for Seymour Duncan Invader and Cool Rails and it sounds much better. That Invader is super hot though, damn. Lots of feedback with my tube screamer and the green ultra gain channel. I might try the Super Distortion again with the graphtech saddles as I really like that pickup in other guitars.

 

[Spud]

Put the graphtech saddles in and swapped out the Super Distortion and ProTrack for Seymour Duncan Invader and Cool Rails and it sounds much better. That Invader is super hot though, damn. Lots of feedback with my tube screamer and the green ultra gain channel. I might try the Super Distortion again with the graphtech saddles as I really like that pickup in other guitars.

The Super Disto at what 14.5K is also revered as a Neck pickup even!

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Not to be a pedant but pickups are not actual microphones and I think that’s an important distinction to make when we talk about the acoustic influence on guitar tone.

While not in construction or design, in function there is similarity, and that little bit of similarity has influence on the final heard outcome.

 

[Strat Avenger]

They're not as microphonic as an actual microphone, but they are still microphonic.
Why, do you think, a ES-335 sounds different from Les Paul with the same pickups, bridge, and pots?
The pickups are "hearing" the acoustic differences between the hollow body and the solid body, not just the electro-magnetic signal of the vibrating string. Of course it is nowhere near as prominent as putting a microphone in front of it.

 

[Hodgo]

While not in construction or design, in function there is similarity, and that little bit of similarity has influence on the final heard outcome.

They're not as microphonic as an actual microphone, but they are still microphonic.
Why, do you think, a ES-335 sounds different from Les Paul with the same pickups, bridge, and pots?
The pickups are "hearing" the acoustic differences between the hollow body and the solid body, not just the electro-magnetic signal of the vibrating string. Of course it is nowhere near as prominent as putting a microphone in front of it.

Easy enough to test - string a solid body electric guitar with nylons and tell me what you hear from your amp. The pickups wont “hear” anything because they simply are not microphones.

We use the term microphonic to describe pickups but it’s not accurate, everything comes back to whether or not it creates a change in the magnetic field such that voltage is generated.

The deal with hollowbodies is that the top acts like a diaphragm, and the pickups are mounted to the top, which causes them to subtly wiggle. This is also why unpotted coils or ferromagnetic covers cause pickup squeal. It’s also why pickup squeal happens more under high gain or high stage volume, because you’ve amplified the bejeezus out of the signal and every little disturbance in the magnetic field gets picked up.

I don’t disagree that there are things outside the electronics and strings that affect a guitar tone, I’m just saying let’s be careful about calling pickups microphones in this context. The only way they can “hear” acoustic vibrations is if the pickup itself gets vibrated.

 

[Tretgeraet]

I might try the Super Distortion again with the graphtech saddles as I really like that pickup in other guitars.

Have you thought about a magnet-swap?

Right after I build my 7/8 S-Style, which also has a basswood body, I found the Duncan '78 model I installed just a little... too soft!

So, I swapped it's AL2 magnet for a ceramic, as that appeared like a relatively easy and inexpensive way to get a little more "aggression" out of that guitar.

I wasn't day and night, it didn't change a lot, but it worked for me, 'cos it gave the sound a tiny little bit more bite.

A few months later though, I was annoyed by exactly that change. Although I wouldn't describe it as "icepick", but I could understand if others would!

I put the original AL2 magnet back into the '78 and now I don't even understand why I swapped it in the first place. It's such a good pickup!

Long story short: Maybe you just don't like the combination of stainless steel frets and the ceramic magnet?

 

[Waraxe]

This is a wood issue.

Otherwise, a simple fix would have solved the problem.

Wood does matter. Not in a maple or alder way, but you have to take into account what it has to offer.

Pickup/wood matching is the order of the day. However, sometimes you end up with an outlier on the bell curve: a guitar, when builr, that is either too bright or not bright enough. It happens.
When it does, you roll pickups thru it in hopes of solving the issue.

When I build, I have an idea of what i want pickup wise, but I wait until the guitar is built before I choose the soul of the guitar (pickups).

Guitar sound thin? Get thicker pickups
Thick? Get brighter
Quick, fast, and tight? Get a2s
Slow or loose? Ceramic mags.

I havent always gotten it right. For example, an Ibby RG921 hardtail that had a light bottom end.
The dimarzio/ibz were not great, so i swapped..... to full shreds! Lol
What i got was an amazing laser focused guitar that cut thru anything, with no low end. Great pickups, totally wrong application.

My lightbulb aha moment happened here and why I include this example.
Using the above choice criteria, I landed on dimarzio breeds.
Damn, if that wasn't just what the doctor ordered. Perfect balance now! Could I find a better match? Maybe. Do I want to bother? No. It truly sounds really really good. I don't like playing its very wide and flat neck, but it sounds and feels so good now its not funny.

2. My warmoth chambered alder strat. I built this in 2010 before the above criteria was discovered. Its an odd one. It sounds almost acoustically loud unplugged, with no dead spots. It sound like the best electric guitar you've ever heard. Crazy. This awesomeness never translated to the plugged tone. I rolled a few sets of pickups thru this one. All sorts of humbuckers went thru it. Well, when I applied the above criteria to this one, I ended up going from hsh with crazy switching (that always sounded too fat, flat, meh.) to sss with a Clapton circuit.
Now we're talking! The sss by them selves were ok, a bit thin. I was frustrated to say the least. I had the opposite problem. The Clapton circuit was added in hope. It added enough variance to satisfy. Im not there fully, but I do appreciate where its heading. Emg singles with a midboost is next. I think this will complete it.

3rd guitar, and a wood comparison type. A 99 mahogany rg. This sucker sounded good stock. It sounds amazing with all the pickups I ran thru the strat. It got the full shreds from above at one point. They sounded much fatter/better here. I kept them in for a while, and only swapped because im a dimarzio whore, Lol. It now sports a mojoe/pafjoe combo. I put the full shreds in an ec256 (all mahogany. The sound great here too) because I installed a mojoe/ pafjoe combo. I add this tidbit for yet another reason, i own a js2450 with the same mojoe.

How does the mojoe work in both? Well......
In the js2450, which is a bright and articulate, very "stringy" guitar. The mojoe let's all that shine thru.
In the rg520qs, it is much thicker sounding.
If I had to compare, its similar to the breed bridge in my basswood 921. This happens with every pickup set i try. Oddly, the js2450 is also louder unplugged than the 520 is. The mojoe is set lower in the js yet is louder. Weird.

My vip build. This one was almost there from the get go.
Based on my experience with the 520, I want with a chambered mahogany body and a maple neck. I went with emg 57/66tws from the get go. How'd that work out?
Uhhhh........ the guitar has a pretty big 500hz fatness that ruins everything TBH. You can hear it unplugged. The humbucker modes are too fat. The single sides are amazing though!
I did find a solution for it. A 2 to 3db eq cut at 500hz. Once I do that, all is right with the world.
Its getting an emg VMC that will be permanently set to that cut on board.

To solve the OPs issue, I'd:

- Try 250k pots first. The volume pot matter more

- dimarzios. They have a tone of bridge pickups with chopped highs that'll work.

-sometimes a bridge swap helps. This is an aluminum to brass or steel, not just looks and functionality.

- strings?

If all this fails, try a different neck/body combo.

 

[Strat Avenger]

Squealing pickups is a result of loose coils vibrating. Wax potting prevents this vibration, which eliminates squealing. Has nothing to do with pickips "wiggling" on the wooden top.
And yes, they are microphonic. I have personally yelled into a guitar pickup while the guitar was plugged into a cranked amp and heard my voice come out of the speakers. Nylon strings would never produce the same effect.

 

[Hodgo]

Squealing pickups is a result of loose coils vibrating. Wax potting prevents this vibration, which eliminates squealing. Has nothing to do with pickips "wiggling" on the wooden top.
And yes, they are microphonic. I have personally yelled into a guitar pickup while the guitar was plugged into a cranked amp and heard my voice come out of the speakers. Nylon strings would never produce the same effect.

I know the trick well. So - how exactly does this work from voice to voltage? And why can a dynamic/condensor/ribbon microphone detect a nylon guitar string but a pickup can’t if they can both detect yelling?

Wiggle definitely implies a more macro motion than what is actually occurring but it is very much the vibration of the top that causes the hollow body howl, and it’s far more noticeable with unpotted pickups. End of the day - no change in magnetic field, no voltage, because nothing in a magnetic pickup can actually sense air pressure alone.