Ultra-bright guitar

[gutter0909]

I posted my latest build(link) over in the 'strat-style guitars' section but after some playing experience, I've come across a very frustrating issue. That guitar is ultra-bright. Like ice-pick, painful, almost unplayable but I love everything else about it. I've double and triple checked the wiring and that's not an issue. So, for some more details that I think may help:

Body: basswood (could this be a factor?)
pickup: DiMarzio Super Distortion (shouldn't be the problem, I have another guitar with SDs and they're great)
the pickup is direct mounted to the body, no rings, used foam.
String thru body
Gotoh GTC102 bridge with steel saddles (steel saddles? I have a set of graph-tech saddles, would those maybe help?)
graph-tech nut
the neck has SS6105 frets, do stainless frets make a difference?

I have a parametric EQ and an MXR 10 band and I was able to get rid of some of the shrill with those but it sucked too much other tone away with it. Please help, I'm desperate to fix this. I have a spare SD Invader pickup laying around I'm gonna chuck in there this evening to see if that'll help anything.

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[Scab Pickens]

What are you playing it into?

I like "ice-pick, painful" ... probably of no help to you . I've always found it easier to roll back high end than to try to create it when it isn't there in the first place.

What type of tone are you going for?

 

[gutter0909]

Marshall DSL40CR. I have another warmoth partscaster, a couple Jacksons, a couple Fender Strats, and they all sound great through the Marshall except for this guitar. I play mainly 80s metal (Metallica, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, along with various other rock from the 70s to more recent stuff).

I have been considering swapping the speaker in my DSL40CR to a creamback of some kind or the WGS Invader.

 

[jjwu]

Is it possible your guitar is lacking low mids and you perceive it as too much highs? I had one basswood guitar. No matter what pickups I put in it it sounded hollow. Though I wouldn't describe it as harsh. It also had an Ibanez fixed edge bridge, rather unique, so maybe that was the culprit. Who really knows?

Only other thing I can think of is resonance. Play into a DAW and pull up SPAN to check. (Dampen strings behind the nut either way.)

 

[gutter0909]

When compared back to back with any of my other guitars, the low end sounds pretty much the same. I don't do the computer stuff and I'm only vaguely familiar with a DAW but I don't have a clue what SPAN is.

 

[Scab Pickens]

I have been considering swapping the speaker in my DSL40CR to a creamback of some kind or the WGS Invader.

If all your other guitars sound great through this amp, I would not suggest swapping the speaker. It is not the kind of amp I play through. However, I do have a Supro Keeley 1x12" with the creamback. It's great for what I use it for. Nice for old school grit and grime, but for defined metal style tones, I would probably go for something else. It sounds, to me, like a pickup problem (or an electrical detail of some sort) more than an amp problem. How does the bridge pickup compare to the neck pickup (if I'm looking at the correct thread)? Maybe put up the link to your original topic so folks can see what you are talking about?

 

[gutter0909]

When I say the other guitars sound great, I mean relative to this one. I've been considering a speaker swap since before I finished making this particular guitar. The sound clips and youtube videos I've seen with DSL40CRs loaded with a creamback sound great for 80s metal but so do a couple others. I'm also considering selling the DSL40CR and getting something different. I just play at home and don't really need such a big amp but that's a whole different can of worms.

As far as linking topics or threads, this is the only thread I've made except for the build thread which is linked so I'm confused as to what you mean.

I'm hoping swapping pickups might make a difference and maybe I have a defective Super Distortion.

 

[Scab Pickens]

Sorry, I didn't notice your "sneaky link". It blended right in with the rest of the text. I had to do an investigative search to figure out what you were talking about.

Also, you didn't answer my question.

How does the bridge pickup compare to the neck pickup

Whatever. I'm tapping out on this one . Too many variables for me to get involved with. Good luck!

 

[gutter0909]

The neck is still a bit bright as well but not nearly as bad. I don't blame you on tapping out. I'm considering getting an alder body to paint come spring and seeing if a different body helps. I'll update when I finally get around to swapping the bridge pickup, hopefully soon. It was also suggested elsewhere to try a different capacitor, so I'll have to look in my parts bin.

Also, I added "(link)" to hopefully help others find the link as well.

 

[Hodgo]

Pot values, wiring setup?

 

[gutter0909]

500k, vol/tone, nothing fancy, .022uf orange drop capacitor just like all my other (humbucker) guitars.

 

[rockandroller]

Graphtech saddles should warm it up a touch more than steel. But I suspect a wiring problem. Could the bridge pickup accidentally have its coils wired in parallel, or internally shorted? What's its DC resistance??

 

[jjwu]

When compared back to back with any of my other guitars, the low end sounds pretty much the same. I don't do the computer stuff and I'm only vaguely familiar with a DAW but I don't have a clue what SPAN is.

Voxengo SPAN. Free spectrum analyzer plugin. How's it sound acoustically? If you can tell it's piercing bright without plugging in, then it's a mechanical issue.

 

[Hodgo]

500k, vol/tone, nothing fancy, .022uf orange drop capacitor just like all my other (humbucker) guitars.

Try a 250k vol pot for some cheap easy high end removal.

Are your pickup heights identical?

 

[cuthbert]

That is strange, in my experience basswood sounds very mellow, almost muddy.

SDs are not bright pickups at all however if you want to mitigate you can use a Super 3 that is a very dark sounding.

I would also play with the Marshall' s controls and effect chain.

 

[JohnnyHardtail]

Did you set the action very low with no relief? Then you could be hearing a noise caused by fret buzz.

I find that some necks can be bright and dry sounding, but it’s normally fixed with the right pickups, or choosing a body wood that is complimentary.

 

[gutter0909]

Gonna swap pickups today and see what difference that makes. Swapping pots to 250k will likely happen. Pickup heights are not the same but I set the pickups all the way up and tested, then lowered the them 1/2 turn of the screw driver at a time until I found a spot that seemed to make a noticeable difference. I don't want to mess with my amp because my other guitars sound good (enough), it's just this one. The action is pretty low but there is a bit of relief. I'll mess with saddle height before I swap them out for the graphtech.

Thanks everyone, I have a list of things to try/do today. I'll post an update later when I've tried some of your suggestions!

 

[aarontunes]

Try a 250k vol pot for some cheap easy high end removal.

yes

Did you set the action very low with no relief? Then you could be hearing a noise caused by fret buzz.

yes

After those, pickup swap.

Also, is this guitar the only hardtail of the group? Hardtails often sound brighter than their trem-equipped counterparts IME.

Love the DSL40-CR. Great amp! If all your other guitars sound good through it, I wouldn't look to a speaker swap as a remedy. Fix the guitar first.

 

[BroccoliRob]

I have a spare SD Invader pickup laying around I'm gonna chuck in there this evening to see if that'll help anything

when all else fails, use the Invader

actually, not when all else fails, you should already be using it since it is the correct pickup

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Every electric guitar is first an acoustic guitar.
Once you introduce electronics, all the tone wood arguments get dimmed down significantly.

The guitar has a microphone (pickups) and a subtractive EQ (Tone Controls) each of which have their own sonic specifications.

Some mics are brighter than others, some are darker than others, which is why mic preferences can be common according to the sound source that they are capturing. Mic preamps are also the largest tone shaper of an audio track.

These are all coming into play on the instrument itself.

Swap these to taste in accordance to the tonal characteristics that you are trying to tame. Most pickup sites have a tonal chart for basic reference. You’d be looking for pickups with either a bass boost, or treble cut. Be mindful, boosts also increase the gain structure. May not matter to some, but too there’s who really want to stay inside a particular output level, it very well may matter to you.