Tuner hole size differences

[jalane]

so i've been researching different tuners to go with for the Ibanez AS73.  I was thinking i'd go with these: http://www.toneproskluson.com/models.html

But i want to make sure that they'll work correctly with the tuner hole size, and i've always been a little cloudy on this whole subject.  It says they're made for 25/64 drillings.  I removed one of my tuners and measured (but i was in poor light using a crude ruler) and it was somewhere between 13/32 and 7/16 (26/64 and 28/64 for purposes of direct comparison).  Is this an issue?  What would the issue be?

Thanks in advance  :headbang:

 

[Cagey]

You're never going to measure that diameter accurately with a ruler; you need a dial caliper.

Since necks are generally made of hardwoods, they don't "give" much, so the holes have to be at least perfect or larger. Then, you don't want larger because the slop reduces transference of string vibration to the neck wood. That's why they're measured in 64ths - to get them as close as possible to a press-fit without interfering with the operation of the tuner.

 

[jalane]

yeah, i really need a caliper.  i thought i could make do with a ruler that measured 64ths, but it was still hard to measure accurately. 

so how much give is too much?  a local luthier told me that he routes the holes a little larger because the grover tuners he uses on his builds tend to have small inconsistencies in their bushings.  If my measurement of 26-28/64 was accurate, that would mean the range in slop would be between .39-1.19 millimeters.  Too much slop?

 

[Cagey]

I'd say any is too much, but as your friend pointed out, some tuners are sloppier than others so you may have to accept some. Say... 1/64"? I'm used to getting a highly predictable press-fit on Schallers with the holes drilled to 25/64". I can only press them in by hand to within the 1/16" or so, then they have to be drawn up with the bushing. They're tight. Used to get the same thing with Sperzels, and I've gotten that with Planet Waves' parts as well. If you're going to use Klusons, I'm not sure how important it is; they're not what I'd call a precision gear to begin with. Their only saving grace is appearance, if you're going after a "vintage" vibe. Otherwise, I'd think seriously about a different part. If you like the buttons/knobs Kluson uses, check with Stewart-MacDonald - most other tuners have replaceable buttons to match your guitar's aesthetics without compromising the mechanics.

 

[Superlizard]

J - whatever you do, just make sure you get those tuners in lefty-style.

You know, the ones that turn counterclockwise.

:icon_jokercolor:

 

[pabloman]

Theres nothing wrong with the new Klusons that are out now. The ones made by Tone-Pro's anyway.  :toothy10:

 

[OzziePete]

J - whatever you do, just make sure you get those tuners in lefty-style.

You know, the ones that turn counterclockwise.

:icon_jokercolor:

Kinda like the left handed screw drivers you use to screw them in with?  :icon_jokercolor:

 

[Superlizard]

Kinda like the left handed screw drivers you use to screw them in with?  :icon_jokercolor:

Yep.

Which begs the question... the burning question for the ages:

Down in Oz, when you install a left-handed toilet, which way does the water spin when you flush?  :sign13:

 

[jalane]

Down in Oz, when you install a left-handed toilet, which way does the water spin when you flush?   :sign13:

<brain explodes> 

 

[jalane]

okay, now i'm starting to get confused/optimistic that the Klusons would work out pretty well.  On the Ibanez forums, everyone talks about how they all replace their AS73 tuners with Grover Mini Rotomatics.  I figured i would just go with them instead, but then i saw this schematic:

So the Grovers are .390"/9.91mm at the base of the tuner.  The Tonepros, on the other hand, are made for 25/64" tuner holes.  25/64"=.3906", or practically equal to the Grovers. So, going on the assumption that, since everyone uses them, someone has previously determined that they're a proper fit (which, admittedly, could be a stretch on an Ibanez forum  :laughing7, the Tonepros would fit fine, right?  Or is there more to it than that?  Like i said, i measured the hole with a ruler, so it's certainly possible that my original measurement was somewhat off.

 

[Superlizard]

okay, now i'm starting to get confused/optimistic that the Klusons would work out pretty well.  On the Ibanez forums, everyone talks about how they all replace their AS73 tuners with Grover Mini Rotomatics.  I figured i would just go with them instead, but then i saw this schematic:

So the Grovers are .390"/9.91mm at the base of the tuner.  The Tonepros, on the other hand, are made for 25/64" tuner holes.  25/64"=.3906", or practically equal to the Grovers. So, going on the assumption that, since everyone uses them, someone has previously determined that they're a proper fit (which, admittedly, could be a stretch on an Ibanez forum  :laughing7, the Tonepros would fit fine, right?  Or is there more to it than that?  Like i said, i measured the hole with a ruler, so it's certainly possible that my original measurement was somewhat off.

Unless you can get an official spec sheet on said tuners (appear to be no-name), or measure with a caliper, your
best bet is to ask on said forum:

"When you change the tuners to the Grover Mini Rotomatics, is there any extra work necessary or is it a direct fit?"

And go from there.

 

[OzziePete]

Down in Oz, when you install a left-handed toilet, which way does the water spin when you flush?   :sign13:

<brain explodes>  

I just flushed and not surprisingly the water had no particular direction, other than out...
However, I checked Wiki and found these Answers:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Which_way_dose_a_toilet_flushes_in_Australia
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_way_does_the_water_flow_in_the_toilet_when_you_flush_in_australia
http://www.answers.com/topic/coriolis-effect#Draining_in_bathtubs_and_toilets

:icon_biggrin: :icon_biggrin: :icon_biggrin:  :icon_tongue:

 

[Jeremiah]

"If the length scale of the tub is about L = 1 m, and the water moves towards the drain at about U = 60 cm/s, then the Rossby number is about 6 000. Thus, the bathtub is, in terms of scales, much like a game of catch, and rotation is unlikely to be important."

But what if the tub has an Earvana nut or vintage brass saddles?

 

[jalane]

Unless you can get an official spec sheet on said tuners (appear to be no-name), or measure with a caliper, your
best bet is to ask on said forum:

"When you change the tuners to the Grover Mini Rotomatics, is there any extra work necessary or is it a direct fit?"

And go from there.

So the Grovers are, in fact, direct fits.  So i guess that means that the Klusons would work too.  I haven't completely ruled out the Grovers though.  They're not quite as attractive, but they are a better gear ratio and apparently you can use the existing screw holes with them.  Roughly the same price, so that's a wash. 

 

[Superlizard]

So the Grovers are, in fact, direct fits.  So i guess that means that the Klusons would work too.  I haven't completely ruled out the Grovers though.  They're not quite as attractive, but they are a better gear ratio and apparently you can use the existing screw holes with them.  Roughly the same price, so that's a wash.

Yup.  :icon_thumright: