Truss rod buzzing in bass

[shadewind]

I assembled my Warmoth bass a couple of weeks ago and I'm very satisfied. But today I noticed that that there is a slight buzzing sound coming from the neck when playing on some frets, especially those on the A string. I'm guessing this is some kind of truss rod buzz. The thing is, this noise is something that I've heard more or less on every bass I've played (at least Fender style basses). It's there on my Highway One Precision Bass and I could hear it on every bass that was my local music store except for one American Standard Precision Bass (the American Standard Jazz Bass had it though).

I'm wondering, is it bad luck or is this something which is inherent in the design of most Fender style basses? Should I contact Warmoth about this? I havent noticed it when playing through an amp.

 

[Cagey]

It's been known to happen, but it's pretty rare. The truss rod is almost always under some amount of tension, and it's a pretty substantial steel rod relative to the strings. If you're hearing it on that many instruments, you might want to get someone else to listen and see if they agree it's the truss rod that's vibrating. Basses that aren't properly set up will often have fret buzz, but because of the low frequency it doesn't sound "buzzy" like a guitar does. Sounds more like a rattle, which I imagine you could mistake as a truss rod bouncing around. Most basses/guitars in music stores aren't properly set up, or at best have only been given a lick and a promise. Then, people buy them and don't have the setup done out of impatience or ignorance, and the store generally isn't going to volunteer the service as it eats labor (read: money), which would reinforce that theory.

 

[shadewind]

I'm sure it's not fret buzz because I do know what that sounds like. This sounds more muffled.

 

[Cagey]

Hmm. Well, I suppose it's possible it's the truss rod. It's not like it's entirely unheard of. But, it sounds like you've heard more buzzing truss rods than any 10 players will hear in their entire lives, which would be bizarre. Everything I can think of that might make that kind of noise would also not be likely to happen the same way on so many instruments.

I'm going to stick with the original idea of getting some second, third, and fourth opinions in real life.

 

[shadewind]

I could record the sound in my studio if that is of any help.

 

[Cagey]

It's worth a shot.

 

[shadewind]

I recorded a little clip of the noise. I pluck the A string at a number of frets first and then the E string. The noise is only present on fretted notes and is more pronounced when I pluck close to the bridge. You can perhaps hear some fret buzzing as well but disregard that and listen for the more muffled buzzing on each note:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2462319/bassnoise.mp3

And here is the same thing on my Fender Highway One Precision bass:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2462319/bassnoise-fender.mp3

And once again, the same thing on my Aria Pro II:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2462319/bassnoise-ariaproii.mp3

I can also replicate this noise on a Telecaster built from parts, an Epiphone Les Paul and finally also a Martin DX1K acoustic guitar. This is all by plucking fairly close to the bridge. The sound seems to be coming from around the neck joint.

 

[Cagey]

I hear what you're talking about. I can't tell if it's a truss rod rattle, though. But, if it seems to be coming from the neck heel area, that would tend to indicate that's not what it is. The truss rod is anchored at the heel. If it was going to vibrate, you would expect it to come from somewhere midway down the neck, and the rod would have to be very loose. You'd also have to have the worst luck on the planet. The odds of this happening on so many instruments the same person owns have got to be up there with winning the lottery.

You say it doesn't happen with open strings, only fretted ones. I wonder if it could be the string between the nut and the fretted note that's vibrating and hitting the frets? Do you keep your action very low, or use very little relief? You might try wrapping a towel snugly around the strings somewhere around the 7th fret, and plucking some notes up the fretboard from there.

Back to the heel thing... are you using straplocks? Some of them have been known to vibrate. That would produce a rattle that would sound like it was coming from the heel area.

I'm not sure what else so many instruments could have in common.

 

[stubhead]

I'm with Cagey here: the statistical odds of you personally having loose trussrods in an Aria Pro II, Fender Highway One, Warmoth bass, a Telecaster built from parts, an Epiphone Les Paul and also a Martin DX1K acoustic guitar are stupendously miniscule. It's probably less than one in a thousand for a single instrument, and you have SIX of them? I won't even say "look in the control cavity for loose wires" because the store bought ones aren't made all that sloppy. You do have some kind of tension on each trussrod, right?

One thing you could try, is an old setup trick: While the bass is tuned to pitch, carefully loosen the neck screws, just enough for the strings to pull the neck tight into the socket, maybe a quarter-turn or so. You'll know if it needed that because the neck will sort of jump a bit. Then tighten the screws again. But the commonality of this buzz is such that it still seems like it's outside the instrument(s).

If you can still hear the buzz when it's unplugged and you're holding it to your ear, I'd say your action is too low. If it's only coming through an amp, I'd work backward from there. Are all the speaker screws tight, is there sand or something on the speaker cone... I'm just really certain you don't have six guitars all with rattling truss rods.

 

[shadewind]

It might have been unclear but the sound clips were recorde with a microphone so what you're hearing is the acoustic sound of the bass. It's not all as pronounced through an amp, there you can barely hear it.

 

[jackthehack]

What type of neck are we talking about?

 

[shadewind]

Warmoth, slim taper, P-bass, maple.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

I hope I am not being too low tech, but strap buttons themselves have cause me a lot of groaning because of the rattle.  I can't listen the the sound files at work, but try holding onto the buttons and and see if it changes.
Patrick

 

[shadewind]

Things I've already checked:

• The nut
• The tuners
• The frets
• The bridge
• The electronics (pots and pickups and all)
• The strap knobs (they're solidly screwed on)

 

[bagman67]

Total shot in the dark:


Have you checked your fretting technique?  It's possible, if unlikely, that perhaps you're doing something wonky in your fretting fingertip placement, or possibly in how much strength you're exerting when you fret.  This might explain why more than one axe is giving you trouble.  Have you had any hand injuries or anything like that in the past?


Just a though -


Bagman

 

[shadewind]

This is regardless of fretting. It's not fret buzz of any sort.

 

[Cagey]

Well, not to poke at you or anything, but it's really coming down to the only thing in common on all these instruments is you. Even if it cost you $10-$15 for someone's time, it would be worth it to find somebody who'll sit down with you for 1/2 an hour or so and see why everything you touch has a loose truss rod. Maybe you're haunted. What's the worst thing that could happen? They tell you your technique is flawless and you belong on stage with Eric Johnson, they point out that one thing or another could use some work, or they identify the problem with the instrument. In any event, your problem is solved for less than the cost of a 12 pack you'd otherwise just reduce to piss.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

I have a Fender Jazz Bass Special from the 80's, and the truss rod got stuck in it.  Couldn't adjust the darn thing at all.  So I loosened it up to the point that the nut was less than finger tight to check that I was not going looney.  Still the same.  I turned and bonked it with my arm and I hear one of the most sickening noises.  A thud/crack/pop noise from the bass.  That was the rod becoming unstuck.  It was then loose in the neck and rattled, made a lot of noise.  I could tighten it at this point and get it so adjust the relief of the neck, worked great.  But once tight, I got no more noise out of it.  I have also had issues with the nut and the bridge making sitar-esque sounds, but that was because I was in a rush to get things set up.  I understand that there is a problem, you can hear it.  But, I have a hard time believing that that many truss rods are misbehaving.  Do you use ultra light strings?  I dunno, I am running out of ideas.
Patrick

 

[shadewind]

Well, not to poke at you or anything, but it's really coming down to the only thing in common on all these instruments is you. Even if it cost you $10-$15 for someone's time, it would be worth it to find somebody who'll sit down with you for 1/2 an hour or so and see why everything you touch has a loose truss rod. Maybe you're haunted. What's the worst thing that could happen? They tell you your technique is flawless and you belong on stage with Eric Johnson, they point out that one thing or another could use some work, or they identify the problem with the instrument. In any event, your problem is solved for less than the cost of a 12 pack you'd otherwise just reduce to piss.

Heh... no offense taken. I doubt that there's a loose truss rod in every instrument I own so what I'm hearing must be something else. It's not really something which is audible when playing normally through an amp.

I had the Fender Highway One bass taken to a local luthier once and he told me he thought it was probably the truss rod. He said that removing the neck, unscrewing the truss rod nut, retightening it and then putting everything back together again sometimes helps. Since he was going to do some other stuff to the bass, I thought "Well, if it fixes it that's good, if not, well... I doesn't really matter." When I came to get it and tried it out, it was gone but it did return after a while. Maybe I just didn't hear it for some reason or maybe it really was gone.

The reason I asked was because I wanted to know if my Warmoth neck is fine or if something's wrong with it. Since I hear this more or less in every bass (or guitar, for that matter) that I've tried (pretty much), the only conclusion I can draw is that it's just fine.

For the record, I removed the pickguard and adjusted the truss rod in many different ways, all the way from completely loose up to the way I like it and the noise did not change.

 

[Cagey]

Well, it seems you have a strange version of the Midas Touch, so you may as well call it "normal". Clearly, anything you play develops an unruly truss rod. Gonna have to grin and bear it, I guess. As long as it doesn't make it to the amp's speaker, you should be good to go.