trem's affect on tone

[dNA]

I've heard mixed reviews from people about trem-equipped guitars and how the trem does or doesn't affect the sound of the instrument. Some people claim that all that metal in the equation makes the guitar thinner and brighter. some people say it takes away sustain - some people have said it adds sustain. Some people say that a big part of the "strat sound" is the trem.
I've had two guitars with trems in the past, but it was years ago and I don't think I could get any useful information from it, because they were both just very different guitars from others I owned and played over the years.
Just wondering what people's experience has been with trems and if they think it's something to take into account when doing the tonal equations for a guitar build.

 

[Superlizard]

3 points:

- most parts in your guitar affect the tone

- zinc/cheap pot metal sucks tone/sustain

- the saddles and block have the most tonal impact (when talking about trems specifically)

 

[kboman]

Tremolo is great, especially for '60s songs! It's always messy build effects into guitars though - keep it on your pedalboard.

Now a vibrato is a different matter!

:icon_jokercolor: (only half joking - Fender has a lot of stupidity to answer for)

 

[dNA]

Tremolo is great, especially for '60s songs! It's always messy build effects into guitars though - keep it on your pedalboard.

Now a vibrato is a different matter!

:icon_jokercolor: (only half joking - Fender has a lot of stupidity to answer for)

yeah. but they're not the only ones guilty of it by any means

 

[kboman]

I know, it's infected most of the industry by now :sad1:

On topic btw: I've also heard very different statments regarding sustain. Some say it adds, some say it detracts and as usual there's one or two who will state with great finality that the str*t vibrato bridge is the pinnacle of all bridges.
I think there was a discussion about this a few months ago actually, but this being the UW board it was probably off topic in a completely different thread...

 

[dNA]

... but this being the UW board it was probably off topic in a completely different thread...

yeah. it makes researching things by searching a bit harder to do

 

[dmraco]

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Some people claim that all that metal in the equation makes the guitar thinner and brighter. some people say it takes away sustain - some people have said it adds sustain. Some people say that a big part of the "strat sound" is the trem.

I think it's not that there's metal in the guitar but rather the amount of contact made.  Depending on the trem, the bridge is more or less suspended there and only makes contacts at very small points at the knife edge and where the springs go into the block.  But in fairness, many stoptails and PRS type wrap arounds make minimal contact as well.  Some of the Strat sound is in the trem...and in the scale length...and in the pickups.....and in the neck wood.

 

[dNA]

  Some of the Strat sound is in the trem...and in the scale length...and in the pickups.....and in the neck wood.

you're right. I guess what I'm looking at is like... if i know what combination of elements works with a hardtail (i.e. scale length, woods, body construction, string gauge, pickups) am I going to have to compensate in some way or another if I replace the hardtail with a trem?
I'm considering selling my tele body and getting a Jazzmaster body instead. all the showcase Jazzies have trem routes and I'm curious to have a trem-equipped guitar. but that seemed to be a whole other headache to think about.

 

[elfro89]

i wouldnt worry to much about how trems effect your sound. I don't think its possible to know from the sound of a guitar if there is a trem or not. Not unless they use it, in which case its then very obvious!

but if i was to play 1 note on a guitar with no trem and the same note with a guitar with a trem, then i doubt someone would be able to KNOW which it is, they might guess it correctly though....

 

[dNA]

i wouldnt worry to much about how trems effect your sound. I don't think its possible to know from the sound of a guitar if there is a trem or not. Not unless they use it, in which case its then very obvious!

but if i was to play 1 note on a guitar with no trem and the same note with a guitar with a trem, then i doubt someone would be able to KNOW which it is, they might guess it correctly though....

Yeah, it's all speculation in the end. It's a shame you can't really A/B a trem in a guitar and then a hardtail, because the trem requires you to route out so much extra wood.
*ponders*

 

[elfro89]

i wouldnt worry to much about how trems effect your sound. I don't think its possible to know from the sound of a guitar if there is a trem or not. Not unless they use it, in which case its then very obvious!

but if i was to play 1 note on a guitar with no trem and the same note with a guitar with a trem, then i doubt someone would be able to KNOW which it is, they might guess it correctly though....

Yeah, it's all speculation in the end. It's a shame you can't really A/B a trem in a guitar and then a hardtail, because the trem requires you to route out so much extra wood.
*ponders*

To be honest i dont even think about any of that, to me guitar is just a tool of expression, if my expressiveness warrants a whammy bar then thats what i have. If the tone is shitty i'll always put it down to me not the tool.

 

[dNA]

To be honest i dont even think about any of that, to me guitar is just a tool of expression, if my expressiveness warrants a whammy bar then thats what i have. If the tone is shitety i'll always put it down to me not the tool.

to each his own

 

[Funky Phil]

I have a Warmoth Soloist (Padouk/Padouk) with a Floyd Rose Original.

It also has a Tremol-no fitted.

The difference in tone (especially bass) between fixed and floating is HUGE!

I would sum up the overall difference as;

1 More bass when fixed (more sustain too). This is because the fixed trem doesn't take energy from the strings as it vibrates.
2 Tighter bending feel when fixed. This is because a floating trem raises up as you bend, which means you have to bend further.
3 More "solid" tone when fixed (there is a noticable "flutter" to notes when floating)

Some players have fitted trems (esp Floyds) with heavy blocks to improve tone. These work by lowering the frequency at which the trem resonates.

 

[tfarny]

I think the bridge has quite a big effect on tone actually, definitely more than body wood. Without a doubt you'll get more sustain and tuning stability with a hardtail as opposed to a trem. A floating bridge will give you a bit brighter and thinner tone and to some extent a more airy 'springiness' that may or may not be part of what people think of as 'strat'. Whether any of this matters depends a lot on your playing style and rig, though. If you play fast with a ton of gain & effects, in a loud bad, no one will ever know or care what kind of bridge you have.

 

[erogenousjones17]

^^ This.

EDIT: Didn't realize I'd end up on the second page. What I meant is that I agree with tfarny's post on page 1.  :laughing7:

 

[ORCRiST]

What I'm doing with my build to alleviate any potential tone issues is: I got a beefy solid brass 37mm sustain block with
stainless steel screws for my FR and I bought a set of 'Raw Vintage' trem springs (instructions say to use all five springs)
which coupled with the block should address the 'mass' and sustain aspects at least. Really looking forward to trying
everything out once the guitar is all together.

http://www.rawvintage.com/eng/item_springs.php
http://floydupgrades.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=page&id=47

I realize the OP wasn't/isn't talking about a Floyd Rose trem per sa, just pointing out some upgrades/tech out there to
adjust or compensate for possible tonal or sustain loss on a generic floating bridge vs. a hardtail setup.

ORC