The New Guy - $00 it hit me - Reality = $$ or "Just go for it"?

[USC-Blues]

Hi Y'all,

The newbie syndrome has hit me very hard this week, and I could use some advise from this very knowledgable forum.

Flash back to when y'all did your first build. For some it may be decades and many brain cells ago :laughing7:

1) I have all the parts now for this my first build.
2) I went to see a very knowledgable tech in Austin to have the Hipshot hardtail drilled, and the custom Strat body drilled to accept the Warmoth neck. Add the PG screws and strap locks holes and I could take it from there to start the refinishing....
Here's the reality check.

First I'm told that my beautiful NEW Warmoth neck needs a "fret crowning"?? These are brand new jumbo SS frets. Is this common?

3) $ 300 - $ 500 to do all this work!!!! :sad:

I'm sure this guys 30 years of experience could justify this charge and he has to make a living also, so I say OK and leave my parts.
As I'm driving home the pit in my stomach has me feeling like I'm pitching in my first playoff game...only a little worse :sad1:

4) It hits me!!....This is supposed to be fun! A new hobby that dosen't kill my knees.... I just had a new baby boy :hello2:....I'm not rich and so on.

I call said tech and say "stop the press" I'll need those parts back, he was very cool as the wait was about two weeks for him to drill thos holes anyway.

So to this point I've read the Erlewine books over and over. Both the Repair and the Refinish are sitting here waiting for me too take action.

Well by this time I hope y'all have flashed back to your first build.

5) I evalueate what skills I've learned as it pertains to electric guitar building.... Refinishing, done a little. Soldering, done a little. Drilling, done a little.

6) Thing I have NOT done...Refinish a guitar, Solder electric guitar pick ups, drill a hardtail bridge on a guitar, install an Earvana nut on a Warmoth neck.
7) Lastly...sorry for the long read.
    I've spent good money on all these parts and really don't (as if) wan't to F this thing up. I don't have a junkyard special to practice on. So what to do? :dontknow:

  HELP... I know with some direction and some your own experience I can do this.
  I promise too pay it forward to a newbie some day when I can say "yeah I've been there" "this is what I did"Thanks y'all

SK

 

[NonsenseTele]

Not sure if $300 is a decent price... think it's way out of real, but I don't live in USA and don't know how things work there on that subject

 

[Tonar8352]

$300 for a nut, fret level/dressing, and full set-up is the going price but only by the best guys in the business.  $500.00 is the price for a full re-fret.  That said I have had many Warmoth necks that I only paid $85.00 for a bone nut and set up and they were fine.  I only pay for the $300.00 set-up if the guitar is a spectacular instrument and it is going into the hands of a very discriminating player.  Most guys can’t tell the difference between the two.

 

[tfarny]

Point of Comparison: Rudy's Music Stop in Manhattan where they make Pensa / Suhr guitars and no electric on sale costs less than $2000, charges $150 for full setup including fret level. Nut is $100. So, yeah, $500, that's a little high. My guess is he pegged you for a sucker.
I want to know:
1. How, with the neck not even attached to the guitar, did he determine it needs a fret level? Did he take measurements, or just eyeball it? Can you see any high or odd frets? You can certainly, get this all bolted together and set up, then see how it plays and if you feel it needs a fret level. I haven't had any of my Warmoths levelled, but I'm thinking of taking one of them in at some point.
2. You have to wait two weeks for him to drill about 12 holes?
3. The pickguard holes are a cinch with a hand drill and some masking tape. Strap holes I always get nervous but they're easy too. Measure twice, cut once.
4. Why again does your body and neck not fit together? Did you order the neck with no bolt holes drilled? This is something you need to make sure and get right, you'd need a drill press of course if for whatever reason they don't fit together.
5. I haven't drilled for a bridge, but if you've got basic hand tools I wouldn't be shy about this either. You are just enlarging the string-through holes, right?
6. You sound like a mature guy with the tools and space to do a fine job on this stuff, and the guy you talked to sounds like a shyster to me.
7. $500 will buy you a beater guitar (chinese squier off craiglist will do nicely), a few miscellaneous special tools, with money left over to ship it to NYC and get your fret level done by some real pros, or if it doesn't need a fret level, buy yourself a nice little tube amp and take the wife out to dinner. Are you kiddin me?

 

[hannaugh]

If you were in So Cal I would hook you up with my tech guy.  His prices are really good (at least in my experience... sometimes I say that about people and shops and I find out that whatever the business is in question charges people who aren't um... women in their 20s... a little more.  I guess that is a perk of being in the extreme minority with some of my hobbies). 

But anyways, he is cool because he doesn't try to stick you with services you don't really need, and if it is something that he thinks you can do yourself, he will not only tell you that, but he'll tell you how to do it, where to buy materials, etc... He gave me a lot of advice when I was restoring my 90 year old banjo, and he fixed my guitar the first time I tried my hand at wiring and I screwed some stuff up  :doh:. Whenever I get a new project, the first thing I do is take it to him and have him look at it and give me pointers on what I should do first, what I should use, etc.  For my LP, I'm having him do the stuff I'm too afraid to do myself (and stuff I don't have the tools for, like installing the studs), but for the most part he is going to show me what to do. 

So yeah, I would shop around for tech guys if I were you, cause maybe you can find someone like that who will help you out.  You also might put an ad up on craigslist and see if anyone would help you out for trade, just be really careful that you don't get scammed or anything.

 

[shanejw]

Two of my Warmoth necks played great right out of the box.  The only one I'm thinking about getting anything done on is my LP.  I don't know if its the stainless frets or what, but they are pretty sharp on the end.  They are playable, just not as nice as I had expected based on my first two.

 

[USC-Blues]

tfrarny,
my friend from Westwood. I had the same feeling about the price, but what do I know as it's been almost tweny years since I had a guitar set up. And both of those were already put together.
If I'm explaining this correctly, the W neck is drilled already. The Strat body has only been routed, no holes for the neck or bridge.

Tonar is correct about most people not telling the difference (insert me) and hannaugh, if you have a tech that give you free advice then he or she is a keeper. When I lived in SoCal the guy I used was Renson guitar in Sherman Oaks. If my remember correctly it was $ 50 to set up my LP standard and $ 125 to put a FRT and Hot Rails in my then Strat.

So really the things that have me shaking in my boots are the Earvana nut, drilling the bridge holes and string thru holes, and the neck holes. I have access to a drill press but I'm not sure if I just mark all the holes and start drilling?
The pick ups, PG and strap lock sound pretty cut and dry.
If anyone needs pics I posted some on the work in Progress section "New Guy first build"

I know there are many with much experience on this excellent forum. I humbley ask for some help. Is there a right way to install these parts? Do I just mark my holes and drill? What about measuring the distance of the bridge and 12th fret? Do I align the neck in the pocket mark and drill? Crowning the end of the frets, that sounds like a little time, patience a file and some youtube help. But the hardtail and neck mounting...Hmmm maybe I'll do my own video on this procedure..lol

 

[blue313]

A second or third opinion is a good thing.  Shop some others via email and phone for pricing and opinions.  Some people advocate that all new necks need a level and dressing.  I'm not a fan of it until the guitar has been completely built and strung up for at least a week so the neck can acclimate to its new home.  It may just need a spot level or even just the ends dressed.  I'd personally concentrate on the drilling portion and wait on the fret work.  Fret and nut work are setup jobs, not assembly work.

http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=6472.msg78955#msg78955
It looks like you'll need the string through holes, bridge mounting holes and neck mounting holes drilled.  The others (pickguard, buttons, tuners, jack, string tree) you should do yourself.  The price for just the neck and bridge holes should be much more reasonable.  The pickguard holes shouldn't be drilled until you have the neck and bridge fitted.  The guard needs to be aligned with those as well as having the electronics mounted in it for a proper fit.

Everyone's got the right idea for you, time to sectionalize and attack things one at a time rationally.  You're instincts have served you well.  This IS supposed to be fun, so relax and have a cold one.  It's the bottom of the first and you're already up by a few runs on a beautiful Sunday afternoon.   :icon_thumright:

 

[guitlouie]

I have to agree with these guys on a few crucial points.  I do not  think that this guy, or anyone really, can just look at the neck, unmounted, and not under tension, and decide that it needs a fret level or crowning.  I'm not an expert, and I do take my finished Warmoths to a trusted tech for final set up, but out of two Warmoth builds, and one neck replacement, I have not yet had to have a level or recrown.  I also believe in shopping around, and getting more than one opinion.  You may find in the end that you like this guy the best, but where is the harm in seeing what else is available.  Either way, I would have to suggest the first things first policy.  Get the things done that are necessary for assembly first, and then see what kind of set up your looking at.  You may be able to decide for yourself whether you need a leveling or recrown.  There were some things that I did not think I was going to be able to do without flubbing on my frist build, but I did them anyway, since the experience was what I was going for.  I did make a mistake, but only one, and it was far from irreversible. 

 

[whitebison66]

I am sure people here can help you immensely with this build. The experience of the members collectively is staggering, and all the 'problems' you may encounter probably already have threads about solving them, with photos. Speaking of which...

Post photos of what you've got, at least the body; it makes it easier for us to problem solve.

For the neck screw holes, try to find the biggest, heaviest drill press you can get. Sometimes, wood or even machine shops get a kick out of a DIY guitar and won't charge you for something as 'simple' (for them!) as drilling four plumb holes.

Same for the string-thru holes. As I said, I am sure people here have written about how to drill holes in the body to match the holes already in the neck.

The only bad news is that you've taken the first step down the road to a significant addiction. But we're already down that road, and not much worse for it. Doesn't everyone dedicate their spare bedroom to guitar building and maintenance and decorate their living room with guitars??

 

[Patrick from Davis]

Don't worry about the crown and polish til you know you need it.  As far as the ends being sharp, they need to be beveled.  I got this off of ebay, and it did the trick for beveling, then I had to round the ends and sand them so that I liked the looks.  While sanding I roll the edges of the finger board as well.  Very comfy after that.  If you are not comfortable drilling the holes for the bridge then get someone with experience to do it, but the neck set up, the nut all of those things can be redone.  If there is a cost associated with it, it is usually small and you get a lot of "character" building out of it.

Finishing a guitar, depending on how high you aim, is not that bad.  But plan on redoing several things, it just happens.  Soldering seems to scare a lot of people, but if you burn up a pot or a cap you are out a buck or two and you have learned another lesson.  Also you usually have to wait for another part so you get to think about not messing up in that way again.  The pick up wires are usually 8-9 inches long so you are not going to kill a pickup. 

If I can give you any insight to what happens with me is, I tackle the next part and ask questions before I do it.  I have accumulated a large amount of specialty tools.  I horde them now and cackle when I hear my friends paying more than the tools for the work.  But, not much of this is too difficult, just slowly knock off one thing at a time.
Patrick

 

[Vol. Knob]

Dude.  I paid $180 for a refret, nut & setup on a telecaster just two years ago.  And it was my understanding that Warmoth necks were crowned and ready to go.

 

[lafromla1]

My neck played fine right out of the box, the only thing I found was the stainless steel frets had a slight scratching noise to them when I made my bends, but my tech said that would wear down with use and the scratching noise would go away as it was probably just some fretboard finish that got on the frets or a coating on the SS frets.  I put 9's on it and have been bending the hell out of them and lo and behold, the scratching noise has started to go away.  So now when I re-string I'll go back to 10's.

My total cost on installation and set-up was $125 but I had all the holes pre-drilled at W.

 

[USC-Blues]

This is exactly why l love this forum. Very Good People!!

I have my calls out to 3 word of mouth techs in and around the Austin area. Still waiting for call backs, seems that all techs take Modays off :icon_scratch:

 

[Vol. Knob]

Always YMMV.  Your doing the right thing by getting as many quotes on this job as you can.  As far as boltin on a neck, it should be easy enough a monkey could do it.  I did.  So I'm at least as smart as a monkey.  A spidermonkey, not a chimp or an orangutan, those critters are brain surgeons compared to me.

It sounds like the tech you took it too just piled on all the stuff he could charge you for, like a mechanic I once used ($40 to clean the battery posts!). 

 

[Part-Time]

I charge $260 to fully assemble a box of parts with set up/intonation and minor fret dressing. Predrilled or not. I end up putting the body in a guitar vise and start assembling it. I like it when the customer is there in the beginning so I can show them how to do it, this way they take emotional ownership of the guitar. $300-$500 is ridiculous unless you have a lot of damaged and missing parts. I mostly do Pick up swaps (full Rewire) and Set up and charge $150 for that. So that leaves $110 to drill holes, install parts and fret dressing. I am not a Luthier but was a roadie and am still a hell of a guitar tech. Hope that gives you a pricing starting point.

 

[USC-Blues]

Thank you Part Time. Check out the pics and fun and learning in my next post

 

[USC-Blues]

Hi y'all

So check it out. After thinking about this build and really wanting to learn, I forced myself to read and read some more.
Each of you have helped more than I can articulate in words. Much thanks.

What I've learned so far.

DangerousR6 has to get some props for his suggestion on locating the screw mounting holes on the neck pocket...DR6 You rock :icon_thumright:

Blue313, guitlouie, Patrick from Davis and whitebison66 thanks for the words of encouragement.

So here's the "glass half empty / half full situation"
The neck pockete holes and bridge holes I went ahead and did myself....so far so good. And then I started to drill the string ferrules holes and that's when things got screwed up.

Half empty...the ferrules holes look like..$$h!!++

Half full...Damn what a great opportunity to learn how to fill those holes with wood dowls and filler. SEE PICS

 

[blue313]

Definitely sounds like you're having a good time with it.  :icon_thumright:

I have to ask, what happened with the string holes?

 

[Mor Paul]

I have to ask, what happened with the string holes?

+1?