The Music Theory thread

[hannaugh]

Hey, so after that big confusing/interesting music theory thread came up, I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread to share information and links, and help each other out with theory since it can be a very confusing subject that takes a long time to get comfortable with. 

If you have a lot of experience with this stuff, please help out.  If you don't, but you want to learn, please post your questions.

If you think music theory is a waste of time, that's totally fine. You have the right to your opinion, but please don't mess up the thread by trying to convince everyone.  We've already established that the thread is for people who are interested in having this knowledge, so please don't try to make it about you. 

Also, let's establish now that there are many ways to teach the various topics of theory, so if you were taught a certain way and someone else was taught another way, let's just leave it at that and not make it about who is right/wrong.  The most likely answer is that both people are right in different ways. 

With all that said, here's my 2 cents to get the ball rolling:

I started with the flash theory lessons at musictheory.net.  They're decent for the fact that they're free, but there are a few things that don't get explained very well in my opinion (eg. their method for key signature calculation seemed needlessly complicated to me), which led me to pop down to Barnes & Noble and pick up The Everything Music Theory Book.  I have been using that to study for about 4 or 5 months.  It is good for laying a foundation in theory, but a few topics just get lightly skimmed over, such as voice leading and some of the more advanced harmonic stuff.  However, it does provide a list of books for further study, which includes Johann Fux' Study of Counterpoint.  Other than that, the only problem I had with it was that the author wrote about primary and secondary chords in the first chapter on chord progressions, and then started saying stuff about secondary dominants in a later chapter, but referring to them just as "secondary chords".  That was very confusing for a few minutes, but after a while he started using the full term, and everything made more sense after that. 

There is another book out there that I am curious about called Music Theory For Guitarists.  I downloaded a sample of it to my Kindle, but I haven't really looked at it yet. 

I want to find a book on voice leading after I am done with the Everything course, so if anyone can recommend reading material for that subject, I would be interested in your input. 

 

[ptirman]

I just ordered Bill Edwards' Fretboard Logic DVD and it so far looks good for someone who wants to learn more about scales and some theory. Hopefully I can contribute in a meaningful way sometime in the future.

 

[rockskate4x]

I'm tellin' all yall, CAGED IS THE BEST THING OUT THERE, if you really want to be able to apply anything you learn from music theory, and I mean ANYTHING from music theory, to the guitar. The caged system is making the fretboard light up like runway lights for me no matter what key I'm in. I just learned about a bunch of chord inversions and stuff in piano class, and I can't practice piano, because all I want to do is find all these inversions on the guitar neck now. The CAGED system makes it super easy to do that. It's also helping me to read music more quickly when playing the guitar.

 

[BassmanAK]

LOVE this thread already!!!!
As a bassist, I see knowledge as power, the more one knows,
the more gigs one gets.
I'm mostly ear-trained, but will be following this thread
for tips and such.... Thanks for the musictheory.net link
:icon_thumright:

 

[Jusatele]

I think that one of the most important thing to learn if you want to learn theory, is the intervals between notes
first let us say that in theory we use the c scale as a base scale, the reason is it has not sharps nor flats.
if you are not wondering why this is not the a scale, well by the time they had designed theory, the tones had already been named so C just happened to be the scale we base things off of
so, I learned by memorizing  wwhwwwh, that means between c and d is a hole step, between d and e is a whole step, between e and f is a half step and so on
so if we look at it as we have 12 tones and we have 7 notes in a scale the named tones are out notes, if C is one and d is 2 then
1, space, 2 space, 3, 4,space 5 space 6 space 7 , octave ( 1 ) those are the intervals of a major scale
or C space D space, E, F, space, G, space, A, space, B, C these are the spacings of tones we have naturall there is no whole step between B and C, nor is there one between E and F

now when you go to the next scale, (using the circle of 5ths) we come to G, G has 1 sharp,, let us look at this, G is the 5th tone of C, the key of G has 1 sharp
why
well the notes are G, A, B, C, D, E, F#, G,  why?
go back to the intervals of a major scale  1,s,2,s,3,4,s,5,s,6,s,7,1
So G,s,A,s,B,C,s,D,s,E,s,F#, G
ok what happened is as we walked up the scale we came to the intervals between e and the next tone needs to be a whole step, but between e and f is just a half step and we need a whole step so we used F#, and needing a half step after that we fall back on G

look at the circle of 5ths again and our next scale is D, or 2 sharps, so if we start a scale on D, the intervals of the major scale,(wwhwwwh) we get
D E F# G A B C# D
again why  the natural spacing of the tones do not match the spacing of the major scale, so we change 2 tones to make them fit.

so we have 12 major scales and that is how we come up with them   ( actually there are 15 major scales but 3 of them are just 3 of the 12 with different names, which is something for you to ask as soon as out figure out what I just posted,) BUT that is the intervals of a major scale, which is the basis to all theory, and why the keys are named what the are.

 

[JaySwear]

i'm a guy who would love to learn more about music theory, but have spent most of my playing years being pretty lazy. i can't wait to see more info pop up in this thread... i'm determined to improve my playing by this time next year, or even before new years. i need to start a good practice regimen, so if anybody has any free online suggestions for me or a good book / dvd to look for please let me know.

i've always been a little slow on picking up theory and i can't read music. guitar was always kind of a hobby that i'm just now wanting to take more seriously. my plan is to pick up a beginner book on scales and theory and read through it like i've never picked up a guitar before.

 

[Jusatele]

people who learn to read music absorb theory as they go, but it does not mean they learn a lot of theory, you can study theory with out being able to play music, but you will find that knowing the notes on the treble clef sure helps as they write it out a lot and knowing how to play those notes helps you to understand what is being said.
William Leavitts book - A modern method for guitar, volume 1, is a great book to learn to read, 20 minutes 4 days a week and within a month you should be up and running with reading skills, just remember, during the first few weeks consciously sing the name of each note you play when you pick it in tone to the note you play, and soon that will be something done in your head automatically, You will know the note on the staff, know the name of it even though you are not longer singing it, and know how it is suppose to sound.
So you will be able to sing the notes as you look at them on the treble staff, and I think you can see how much that will expand what you read about in theory.
and see why learning to read music, even if just basic reading, will greatly expand your study of theory, but is not necessarily the path you need to make. It just helps a ton, and it is never to late to learn, I know guys who played for years and later in life learned to read it as a way to expand.


Anyway, we need a champion for this thread who wants to teach it, and answer all the questions,

 

[rockskate4x]

people who learn to read music absorb theory as they go, but it does not mean they learn a lot of theory, you can study theory with out being able to play music, but you will find that knowing the notes on the treble clef sure helps as they write it out a lot and knowing how to play those notes helps you to understand what is being said.
William Leavitts book - A modern method for guitar, volume 1, is a great book to learn to read, 20 minutes 4 days a week and within a month you should be up and running with reading skills, just remember, during the first few weeks consciously sing the name of each note you play when you pick it in tone to the note you play, and soon that will be something done in your head automatically, You will know the note on the staff, know the name of it even though you are not longer singing it, and know how it is suppose to sound.
So you will be able to sing the notes as you look at them on the treble staff, and I think you can see how much that will expand what you read about in theory.
and see why learning to read music, even if just basic reading, will greatly expand your study of theory, but is not necessarily the path you need to make. It just helps a ton, and it is never to late to learn, I know guys who played for years and later in life learned to read it as a way to expand.


Anyway, we need a champion for this thread who wants to teach it, and answer all the questions,

+1, any sort of sight singing classes you can take at your community college or something will help you tons. Hearing notes in your head when reading sheet music or tab or looking at your guitar means less time thinking about sound and more time making the sounds that you want!

 

[Jusatele]

Second most important thing, before moving on, make sure you understand the last lesson, each builds on the last

ASK QUESTIONS  that is the benefit of not just reading a book, if you are learning from here you can ask for an explanation on what is unclear

 

[Superlizard]

http://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Handbook-Ralph-Denyer/dp/0679742751

...and go from there.

 

[Tonar8352]

I have become a huge fan of the Jimmy Bruno Guitar Institute.  It cost $60.00 for a 90-day period and you have 24 hour a day access to his instruction.  I am in no way affiliated with Jimmy other than I signed up a couple of months ago and have found it to be better than anything I have run into in the past. It is a Jazz based method but the principles apply to all forms of music.

The bad news is right now he is not taking new students because he is working through some legal issues that I have no idea about.  That should all be worked out by the first of the year and then I highly suggest you give it a shot.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XlEXkb9ufc&feature=related

 

[drewfx]

Another way of thinking of chords, is most chords are based on thirds stacked on top of each other:

Major 3rd with a minor 3rd on top of it = Major chord (triad); C-E-G = Cmaj
minor 3rd with a Major 3rd on top of it = minor chord (triad); C-Eb-G = Cmin
and
2 Major 3rd's = augmented; C-E-G# = Caug
2 minor 3rd's = diminished; C-Eb-Gb = Cdim

Adding another 3rd on top, will create a 7th chord in one form or another.
Ex.:
C-E-G (Cmaj) with a major 3rd added on top = Cmaj7 (C-E-G-B)
C-E-G (Cmaj) with a minor 3rd added on top = C7 (C-E-G-Bb)

 

[Jusatele]

Drew, that is great, but let us get them past minor scales, modes, then the Harmonized scale, at which time chords, their function and inversions start to fall in place as of right now we are laying a base work for all theory to work off of, as of now we are just establishing a major scale and it's intervals, to start explaining a Minor 7th diminshed is a bit to ask of someone who is just recognizing there is no C flat

 

[Mor Paul]

Drew, that is great, but let us get them past minor scales, modes, then the Harmonized scale, at which time chords, their function and inversions start to fall in place as of right now we are laying a base work for all theory to work off of, as of now we are just establishing a major scale and it's intervals, to start explaining a Minor 7th diminshed is a bit to ask of someone who is just recognizing there is no C flat

There is a Cb, it's in Db Minor, for example.

 

[ptirman]

Another way of thinking of chords, is most chords are based on thirds stacked on top of each other:

Major 3rd with a minor 3rd on top of it = Major chord (triad); C-E-G = Cmaj
minor 3rd with a Major 3rd on top of it = minor chord (triad); C-Eb-G = Cmin
and
2 Major 3rd's = augmented; C-E-G# = Caug
2 minor 3rd's = diminished; C-Eb-Gb = Cdim

Adding another 3rd on top, will create a 7th chord in one form or another.
Ex.:
C-E-G (Cmaj) with a major 3rd added on top = Cmaj7 (C-E-G-B)
C-E-G (Cmaj) with a minor 3rd added on top = C7 (C-E-G-Bb)

Thanks Drewfx: I'm at the crawl before you walk stage of doing anything beyond play by ear: keep it up - a march of a thousand miles........

 

[Superlizard]

Who sez there's no B#?

:laughing7:

 

[Jusatele]

Drew, that is great, but let us get them past minor scales, modes, then the Harmonized scale, at which time chords, their function and inversions start to fall in place as of right now we are laying a base work for all theory to work off of, as of now we are just establishing a major scale and it's intervals, to start explaining a Minor 7th diminshed is a bit to ask of someone who is just recognizing there is no C flat

There is a Cb, it's in Db Minor, for example.

Max, C flat is B,
F flat is E
B sharp is C
E sharp is F
there is no interval between B and C, nor E and F,
We call that tone you refer to C flat because we already have a B tone, and cannot have 2  B tones in a scale, In other words because we have a B flat, our next tone needs to be C flat, even though there is no C flat it is actually B
We need to establish this to introduce chord theory, as we need to introduce the intervals of the major scale
the problem with trying to do this in a forum, is someone will pop in and introduce stuff before the base is established
So,
  Drew has a good  post, for later, you see as of now, how man people could figure out that between a major and minor interval from D to establish the tones in a chord?
He has a good post, but most guys with no theory have not a clue to answer that, and would build the D chord as, D,F,A, then wonder why it sounded wrong

 

[Mor Paul]

Yep, Justatele, I'm familiar with all that.
IMO, Cb exists, as well as Fb, B#, and E#, but they aren't as useful, or normally practical. But, it's not all that important

 

[Superlizard]

Drew, that is great, but let us get them past minor scales, modes, then the Harmonized scale, at which time chords, their function and inversions start to fall in place as of right now we are laying a base work for all theory to work off of, as of now we are just establishing a major scale and it's intervals, to start explaining a Minor 7th diminshed is a bit to ask of someone who is just recognizing there is no C flat

There is a Cb, it's in Db Minor, for example.

Max, C flat is B,
F flat is E
B sharp is C
E sharp is F
there is no interval between B and C, nor E and F,
We call that tone you refer to C flat because we already have a B tone, and cannot have 2  B tones in a scale, In other words because we have a B flat, our next tone needs to be C flat, even though there is no C flat it is actually B
We need to establish this to introduce chord theory, as we need to introduce the intervals of the major scale
the problem with trying to do this in a forum, is someone will pop in and introduce stuff before the base is established
So,
  Drew has a good  post, for later, you see as of now, how man people could figure out that between a major and minor interval from D to establish the tones in a chord?
He has a good post, but most guys with no theory have not a clue to answer that, and would build the D chord as, D,F,A, then wonder why it sounded wrong

^ all 100% truth, and like he says, the foundation which must be established before moving on to more complex items.

 

[clewnii]

I have become a huge fan of the Jimmy Bruno Guitar Institute.   It cost $60.00 for a 90-day period and you have 24 hour a day access to his instruction.  I am in no way affiliated with Jimmy other than I signed up a couple of months ago and have found it to be better than anything I have run into in the past. It is a Jazz based method but the principles apply to all forms of music.

The bad news is right now he is not taking new students because he is working through some legal issues that I have no idea about.  That should all be worked out by the first of the year and then I highly suggest you give it a shot.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XlEXkb9ufc&feature=related

Jimmy Bruno has some really smart ideas on how to approach the guitar, check out his old VHS instructional video its very interesting. Don't remember the exact name of it but just searching for his name in the right places should get results.


EDIT:   Found it  http://www.amazon.com/Jimmy-Bruno-Nonsense-Jazz-Guitar/dp/B000BM7YY2