Telecaster with an all ebony neck; too top heavy?

[Punxsutawney]

I've recently purchased a solid Warmoth telecaster body (5 lbs 1 oz).  I'm considering an all ebony neck, modern construction, fatback profile and 1 3/4" nut width.  A neck like that is probably going to weigh a bit.  I'm inclined to think telecaster bodies are more prone to neck dive unfortunately, because there's no horn above the neck, which extends towards the 12th fret, where the strap would be secured further from the centre of gravity (pulling the neck up).  I also believe weight is a factor of course, but might have less influence on the outcome.  Fortunately, the body is more on the heavier side, but is it enough?  What do you guys think?  Does anyone have a heavy neck with a telecaster body?  Do you suffer from neck dive as result?

 

[Cagey]

Yeah, if it's that black Gabon or Macassar Ebony, then by the time you get some tuners on it that's gonna weigh all of 2 pounds, maybe a smidge more. If it's the Brazilian Ebony, they're pretty reasonable. Might only be a pound and a half or less. In any case, I don't think you have to worry about neck dive. Even though the Tele doesn't have a prominent horn like a Strat-style body, the strap hanger is still well ahead of the center of gravity. I've never seen a Tele neck dive, and I go through a lot of them here. I have 5 myself, all with exotic necks, and none have even the slightest tendency to drop.

The ones you see dropping are those where the strap hanger ends up very near or at the heel, like an SG, Melody Maker, any of the Vs, etc.

 

[Punxsutawney]

Hello Cagey and it's nice to meet you.  Thank you for that information and it is very useful to hear about your experiences with heavy necks.  From reading some of your prior posts, your opinion was one I was most interested in.  That solves that question and now there's only one left; Macassar or Gabon?

 

[Cagey]

Gabon matches anything and always looks classy. Macassar ranges from drop-dead gorgeous to red-headed stepchild. To my way of thinking, the only way to order Macassar is to see the end result first, so you gotta watch the showcase. Warmoth is very good about picking attractive pieces, but with that wood it's easy to get a piece that looks like scrap. At least, to me. I'm sure I'd get some argument on that  :laughing7: But, that's why so many manufacturers dye their Ebony.

Brazilian Ebony is nice, though. It's a monochrome presentation, but it's not as dense or black as Gabon Ebony. It's more like a very dark brown. Looking at it, you think "this is the densest, darkest Mahogany I've ever seen".

 

[mayfly]

Kevin!  did you say you've got FIVE telecasters?  I think you might have more than me!!








... or maybe not.

 

[AirCap]

I have a VM Tele with a wenge/ebony neck from Warmoth. It's not too heavy...

 

[Cagey]

Kevin!  did you say you've got FIVE telecasters?  I think you might have more than me!!

Yeah, after 40 years or so, I finally fell in love with them. Probably would've happened earlier, but very early exposure to them didn't leave a positive impression, so I just never gave them another chance. Wrote 'em off for good. Silly, but there it is.

I'm ready to get rid of a few, though. Some are a bit redundant.

 

[Punxsutawney]

Gabon matches anything and always looks classy. Macassar ranges from drop-dead gorgeous to red-headed stepchild. To my way of thinking, the only way to order Macassar is to see the end result first, so you gotta watch the showcase. Warmoth is very good about picking attractive pieces, but with that wood it's easy to get a piece that looks like scrap. At least, to me. I'm sure I'd get some argument on that  :laughing7: But, that's why so many manufacturers dye their Ebony.

Brazilian Ebony is nice, though. It's a monochrome presentation, but it's not as dense or black as Gabon Ebony. It's more like a very dark brown. Looking at it, you think "this is the densest, darkest Mahogany I've ever seen".

I found three examples of Brazilian ebony (used as a shaft wood) in the Warmoth Showcase and I like the look of them.  Visually, they would not be my first preference as a compliment to the guitar body ("PT6006"), but I do think all three would look amazing with it.  Ultimately, I would prefer something black or predominantly black.

Until I read your comment, I was actually leaning towards a macassar custom neck, but only because it was cheaper than a gabon equivalent.  The Warmoth Showcase examples of macassar do look impressive, but all of them are unavailable due to CITES restrictions.  I don't mind a few streaks, so long as the wood has a fair proportion of black in it, to contrast against everything else on the neck and body.  An all black ebony surface is the ultimate dream of course!  After looking at examples over the internet, I can see what you mean about the varying beauty (or lack thereof) with macassar.  That most definitely eliminates it as a custom neck choice, unless an assurance can be made that it is mostly black.  Hopefully something appealing turns up in the Showcase.  Thank you for that information, because I don't want to gamble on my selection.

 

[Punxsutawney]

I have a VM Tele with a wenge/ebony neck from Warmoth. It's not too heavy...

I had a look at some published stats for wenge and it's close to ebony in weight.  This gives me more confidence in choosing a heavier neck for the telecaster body.  Thank you for sharing that.

 

[Cagey]

That is a fine body you've picked for yourself, there! Solid one-piece Koa? I'll bet that made your credit card whimper!  :laughing7:

You know what might look good on there, give you the face you want, feel fantastic, weigh half as much and cost a lot less money? Black Ebony over roasted Maple.

It would be a bright neck, like the solid Ebony you want, and the color would match reasonably close to that Koa. For that matter, you could even have the headstock face laminated with some Koa if you wanted a perfect match. Burnish it, put some mungo stainless frets on it, and it'll be like sex on a stick. Doesn't require a finish, so it'll feel good forever.

That particular neck is here for $235, but as you can see it's not a Tele neck (if that's what you wanted) and if memory serves some other specs are wrong, but it gives you a rough idea of what the right one will cost/look like. An all black Ebony neck will probably run in the $550-$600 range.

 

[mayfly]

That is a heck of a nice body there!

 

[Punxsutawney]

That is a fine body you've picked for yourself, there! Solid one-piece Koa? I'll bet that made your credit card whimper!  :laughing7:

You know what might look good on there, give you the face you want, feel fantastic, weigh half as much and cost a lot less money? Black Ebony over roasted Maple.

It would be a bright neck, like the solid Ebony you want, and the color would match reasonably close to that Koa. For that matter, you could even have the headstock face laminated with some Koa if you wanted a perfect match. Burnish it, put some mungo stainless frets on it, and it'll be like sex on a stick. Doesn't require a finish, so it'll feel good forever.

That particular neck is here for $235, but as you can see it's not a Tele neck (if that's what you wanted) and if memory serves some other specs are wrong, but it gives you a rough idea of what the right one will cost/look like. An all black Ebony neck will probably run in the $550-$600 range.

I don't have a credit card that wimpers – well not exactly true – but only because it was taken from me after that purchase! :laughing11: :doh:  The international postage costs were horrific!  The Australian tax on it was a nightmare and don't talk to me about the exchange rate!  I'll probably get the item at the end of the week and I'm looking forward to seeing it.  That body was worth it; the moment I saw it I wanted it and that was it.  I could have gotten something just as beautiful for half the price, but I liked "it" and I don't mind spending more when that is the case.  Damn it hurt though!

That neck you've shown me is close to being a viable/very beautiful/cheap option and many like it (such as those Brazilian ebony shafts) have tortured me as choices.  They will continue to do that until I decide on something.  This specific item however, is not quite right, as many of the dimensions are too small for me, particularly the nut width, otherwise "wow" ..... just "wow"!

I actually ordered (and purchased) a custom koa shaft with ebony (black) fretboard, gold pearloid blocks, etc..  Warmoth then warned me, that the koa shaft might not look good with the koa body, which just turned me right off the idea completely and I halted the order.  This was probably not their hope or intention, but that was the effect and I guess it was the right thing for them to do (for me) – an unhappy customer is not a repeat customer.  I appreciate that they did this.  After that, I considered the idea of an all ebony neck; instead of problems matching it to the koa body, it would contrast wonderfully.  It is a visually versatile, majestic and an inspiring surface for a guitar.  My only concern was the weight imbalance, but it sounds like there is little risk of that and I'm not worried about it anymore.

I am not sure if I want a tele neck, or not, if I get one from the Showcase.  I was going to ask about strat neck choices with telecaster neck pockets, because there's more diversity offered with strat necks.  I ask from complete ignorance; does it matter in any way at all?

I have found this: "VMS11534" in the Showcase.  It's a strat neck that's all ebony and I'm actually allowed to purchase it.  It's a reasonably viable option, but like everything I'm finding in the Showcase, there's a compromise (i.e vintage/modern, thin profile, etc.) or I'm not allowed to own it at all which is happening a lot (i.e. "VMS11520").  Patience is probably the key, that and store browsing perseverance!

 

[Punxsutawney]

That is a heck of a nice body there!

Thank you for the nice comment!  It does look great and I'm looking forward to seeing it with my own eyes.  It will break my heart if it turns out to be pink! :sad:

 

[Logrinn]

Returning to the original post, I actually have a Tele with a neck that has a neck dive issue.
But since the neck is bloodwood with a black ebony neck that's really heavy and the body is a 7/8 Tele body, ie a smaller than normal Tele, and a chambered one at that, I don't think your body at plus five pounds will have my problem.

For my next build, I'm getting what Cagey recommended: a roasted maple neck with ebony fretboard. And because I know how nice roasted maple is, I say go for that.

 

[Fat Pete]

...I was going to ask about strat neck choices with telecaster neck pockets, because there's more diversity offered with strat necks.  I ask from complete ignorance; does it matter in any way at all?

Functionally, no, it's not an issue. Some people will insist on a tight all-round fit but IMHO it's all about seating it flat against the face of the pocket and screwing it down properly.

Visually, assuming you're going for a 22 fret neck,  you can only see the (2mm-ish) gaps if you peer under the fingerboard overhang from the side. Nobody would know they were there.

 

[dmraco]

That body is over 5lbs  It may not be that bad and adjusting the strap buttons does help.  I have a lighter pine (under 3) tele with a Pau ferro/Bocote neck that is rather heavy and do not have much issue.

 

[Punxsutawney]

Returning to the original post, I actually have a Tele with a neck that has a neck dive issue.
But since the neck is bloodwood with a black ebony neck that's really heavy and the body is a 7/8 Tele body, ie a smaller than normal Tele, and a chambered one at that, I don't think your body at plus five pounds will have my problem.

For my next build, I'm getting what Cagey recommended: a roasted maple neck with ebony fretboard. And because I know how nice roasted maple is, I say go for that.

I find this information very useful, because if you want to push the boundaries of balance, it shows where the limit is.  It sounds like I'm not even close to that limit, but knowing how far I am away from the edge is equally helpful and thank you for providing that.

This is a little extreme, if not crazy, but I wonder if I can dry my washing on the headstock while practising?  It just might!

 

[Punxsutawney]

That body is over 5lbs  It may not be that bad and adjusting the strap buttons does help.  I have a lighter pine (under 3) tele with a Pau ferro/Bocote neck that is rather heavy and do not have much issue.

Your tele body is approaching half the weight of mine, yet you're observing only minor hassles with neck dive and both your neck woods are heavy.  This is valuable information and gives me good #'s to guage limits and thank you for that.  Out of curiosity, what methods did you use to solve/alleviate the imbalance, or is it not an issue for you?  I have not experienced neck dive, so I don't know how inconvenient it is.  I keep reading about it and feel it's best to avoid if I can.

Also, you've got some really nice guitars there!

 

[rgand]

That body is a fine one. Looks great and with that neck, it'll really be something special.

 

[Kostas]

That body is over 5lbs  It may not be that bad and adjusting the strap buttons does help....

Good advice. You have a heavy body and that's before hardware and pickups are on, 99% you won't have an issue. Both my Telecasters are way lighter and they don't have that issue. Just to be sure when you assemble the guitar don't screw the strap buttons, put a strap with duct tape and check for neck dive. I did the same when I changed the strap buttons location on my Flying V, it helped me to see where I liked them.