Strat neck help please.

[jdroost]

Hello.
After years of dealing with serious tendinitis in my fret hand I am looking for some help to make things easier for me to play.
Been checking out the conversion necks in hopes less string tension will save my fingers.
Also considering building a 7/8 setup...but funds are a bit tight for that and I would need to cannibalize my usa Lonestar for parts to build one.
  I have a few questions.
Is it an issue if I decide on a 1 5/8  (I recently played a tele with a 5/8 nut and it helped)nut as far as bridge spacing (Lonestar is 1 11/16) ?

Any issues or drawbacks with the 24.75 conversion as far as tone loss or intonation?

As far as the 7/8 guitars go...Is there a noticeable difference in tension (more importantly) bend tension over a conversion neck on a standard guitar?

I was actually going to wing it and order a conversion neck but they don't stock one with a wizard profile.
So any help before I go custom would be fantastic.
Thanks in advance.

 

[stratamania]

If you prefer 1 5/8" and it feels more comfortable then go for that. Standard thin may be more comfortable than a wizard neck as it may support your hand a little more without being overly thick.

For any given string gauge tension will always be less on a 24 3/4" versus a 25 1/2" scale due to physics.

Any issues or drawbacks with the 24.75 conversions as far as tone loss or intonation?

Lots of good tones have been played on instruments with that scale length. As long as it is set up right you should not have any intonation issues versus a 25 1/2.

Bridge spacing is the same between 1 5/8 and 1 11/16" and the 7/8 series use standard parts. As long as the Lonestar bridge is a standard size you should be good.

The good thing is that over time you could gradually replace the cannibalized parts and put the Lonestar back together and sell it.

 

[Logrinn]

I’ll add my 2 cents. Or a few of my cents ...

The nut width will matter for your fretting hand. A slimmer width might feel good when doing some chord stuff on the first couple of frets. But it might also mean that it can feel cramped there. A B9-5 chord could be harder to fret on a 1 5/8 than on a 1 11/16 neck.
But the choice of width at the nut doesn’t affect the bridge spacing much. You’ll want a certain bridge spacing if you’re used to do certain picking stuff. Changing the bridge spacing might make these picking stuff harder to do if you’re used to one particular bridge spacing.

Tone loss or intonation issues? No.
I use 24” scale necks on my 7/8 bodies. I’ve got excellent tone and of course the necks intonate. Warmoth wouldn’t be able to sell them if they didn’t intonate.

Don’t worry about the tension when it comes to scale length. I hear this all the time. On Youtube everybody says that the main difference in scale length is that a shorter scale neck will feel slinkier than a long scale neck. That. Is. Completely. Irrelevant!
If you have 10’s in a guitar and change to 9’s, it will feel slinkier. Duh! Of course it will.
The BIG difference is that a shorter neck will allow you to play stuff that are harder to play on a longer scale neck - if you’ve got smaller hands (or have trouble with tendinitis). And vice versa. If you’ve got large hands, switching to a longer scale guitar will make some stuff easier to play. I’ll say it again; it’s like clothes or shoe sizes. If you’ve got size 8 fret, you don’t buy size 10 shoes.

Lastly - I’ve experienced after 45 years of playing, that a slimmer neck, like the Wizard, isn’t kinder to my fretting hand. Quite the opposite. A bigger neck - I prefer the 58-profile - feels much better.

My advice: go to a store and play a Fender Mustang or Jaguar (24”), then a Gibson (24,75”) and lastly a Strat (25,5”) and see how it feels doing stuff with the left hand on these different scale necks. Also check for differences in neck profiles. Does the slimmer neck or the chunkier neck feel better? And I’m not talking about it feeling strange because you might not be used to some of it. But does either of all these options hurt your hands more? Does some hurt less? Which ones? You might be surprised.
:icon_thumright:
Good luck.

 

[jdroost]

Thank you both for the detailed answers.
Much to think about here for me...
Sounds like a day at the local guitar center is in store for me.
I am currently playing an old Ibanez rg with 9s (because I have to)...so profile wise I am good with the wizard.
That being said...I don't know if its because It makes it easier to reach hard to fret chords because of the thinner neck that's helping and/or if going to a standard profile Warmoth and a smaller nut would actually be better for my hand (could not find a better way to word that).
I can say that bending quickly does the most damage to my finger that has the issue...hence my look into short scale length.


On a side note... I don't se the option to do a humbucker in the bridge of the 7/8 strat body.
Am I missing that somewhere? I suppose I can do a tele body but then I will need to buy a bridge and other bits for the conversion.

 

[spe111]

Sorry to be somewhat off topic, but what does tendinitis feel like? My knuckles get very sore but I haven't talked to anyone about it. I feel like whatever makes my knuckles hurt is hard to accurately diagnose.

Anyways, for me, the only thing that helps is lighter strings. Most of my guitars are 25.5", but I have some 24.75" and even a Fender Jaguar. The shorter scale lengths and narrower necks do not help me at all.

About a year ago my knuckles were feeling good so I decided to go to 11's on electric guitars (which I prefer). Big mistake, after about a month my knuckles hurt worse than ever. 

 

[jdroost]

So I was practicing for way too long two years ago and I went to bed with a "stiff" pointer finger. Next morning I could not close my finger at ALL.
Terrified... I went to the dr.and got sent to several hand specialists over the years.
I am at the point where I can't get any more cortisone shots in my finger and they want to try surgery to "attempt" to fix the issue. Risky at best imo.
The main issue for me is the sheath that surrounds the tendon to that finger swells and actually locks the finger.
Pain in in the middle knuckle for me when it acts up and flexibility is lost. Two years ago I thought I would never play again and actually considered trying to relearn left handed (that still may need to happen).
  Doing whatever it takes to avoid the knife at this point.

Stinks that the short scale did not help..
I may need to reconsider this or buy a cheap tester axe to see if it helps me.

 

[dmraco]

My advice: go to a store and play a Fender Mustang or Jaguar (24”), then a Gibson (24,75”) and lastly a Strat (25,5”) and see how it feels doing stuff with the left hand on these different scale necks. Also check for differences in neck profiles. Does the slimmer neck or the chunkier neck feel better? And I’m not talking about it feeling strange because you might not be used to some of it. But does either of all these options hurt your hands more? Does some hurt less? Which ones? You might be surprised.
:icon_thumright:
Good luck.

I could not agree more.  I find neck profile is more important than scale and far as comfort i the hand. Most of mine are standard thin but the Wolfgang and SRVs (slightly offset for both) feel great.

I have switched to using the 24.75" scale on all my guitars.  It just feels better to me.  I do like the "feel" of the strings a bit more (I play 10s).  No tone issues with the smaller scale.

 

[stratamania]

There are some quite notable guitarists who have had to undergo hand surgery. Dave Kilminster who plays for Roger Waters springs to mind and I know someone who had what was called trigger finger that had to have surgery.

For the man with pain in the knuckles, it sounds like it could be that physical stress of some sort the fact that using 11s brought this on possibly indicates this. Moral, don't use heavy strings because of SRV or some idea on a forum. Use strings that allow you to play without pain. Its an instrument, not a powerlifting contest.

Lack of warm-ups and bad technique as we get older can all be challenges.

Humbuckers on the 7/8 seem to require a Universal rout.

 

[spe111]

So I was practicing for way too long two years ago and I went to bed with a "stiff" pointer finger. Next morning I could not close my finger at ALL.
Terrified... I went to the dr.and got sent to several hand specialists over the years.
I am at the point where I can't get any more cortisone shots in my finger and they want to try surgery to "attempt" to fix the issue. Risky at best imo.
The main issue for me is the sheath that surrounds the tendon to that finger swells and actually locks the finger.
Pain in in the middle knuckle for me when it acts up and flexibility is lost. Two years ago I thought I would never play again and actually considered trying to relearn left handed (that still may need to happen).
  Doing whatever it takes to avoid the knife at this point.

Stinks that the short scale did not help..
I may need to reconsider this or buy a cheap tester axe to see if it helps me.

Thanks for the explanation. I don't have any issues other than pain. I'm always interested in hearing about people's hand issues. Look at a recent picture of Keith Richard's hands sometime.

For the man with pain in the knuckles, it sounds like it could be that physical stress of some sort the fact that using 11s brought this on possibly indicates this. Moral, don't use heavy strings because of SRV or some idea on a forum. Use strings that allow you to play without pain. Its an instrument, not a powerlifting contest.

I don't care about SRV or forum stuff, it's not a tone thing. I think heavier strings feel better to pick and I have more accuracy with bends on heavier strings. Yeah, you can adjust to lighter strings, but if I improve with lighter strings then I'll be even better with heavier strings.

 

[stratamania]

spe111 if you can bend correctly with lighter strings and using heavier one gives you pain it might be a clue to stick to lighter strings.

 

[Logrinn]

Humbuckers on the 7/8 seem to require a Universal rout.

If you choose the top route option, then it's S/S/S or universal pickup route that applies.
But if you on the other hand choose the rear routed option, then you can have any pickup route you can imagine.

 

[fdesalvo]

1-5/8" Roundback will make you smile.

 

[AirCap]

I have a longtime client who is a fabulous fingerpicker who experiences wrist, hand, and finger pain from an odd strain of leukemia. He wears some special gloves to support his hand and wrist, and a set of special fingerpicks to make the pain bearable when playing. It's not cheap...

 

[aarontunes]

I just made a personal guitar with Warmoth parts.

I chose a Gibson-scale Conversion Neck, 1-5/8" Nut Width, Wolfgang profile, SS6150 frets. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend any of those specs to someone looking to make things easier on their fretting hand. I think each one plays a little role in overall comfort/ease of play.

It also has a Floyd on it. Freaking killer guitar, intonates perfectly and stays in tune like a champ.

I plan to do a video of it in Sept. Should be fun!

 

[TBurst Std]

I wonder if those gloves are the same ones Scott from Scott’s Bass Lessons uses? Scott suffers from focal dystonia same as I

 

[jdroost]

Just got back from G.Center.
They had a Duo Sonic,Squire Mustang HH and a Squire Affinity Tele (1 5/8 ) nut. No Jags at all..
Started with the Mustang  Neck was notability easier to play over my Lonestar. I could really feel the difference in scale length. Reach to the nut was much better.
Whatever cheap satin finish they use on that neck actually felt great to me.
The bad side is...the guitar was sh*t as far as hardware goes.
I could not keep it in tune and the pickups were very noisy through the Fender tube amp I was plugged into.
It felt very cheap...

Next was the Duo sonic.
Could feel build quality was a notch up and it actually felt pretty good neck wise. But the neck did not feel the same in my hands or on the fingers as to the Mustang. Got home and did some research and the Duo has a 9.5" radius as to the mustangs 12".
I think that is actually what I felt to be different (as the shape of both necks are supposedly the same). Having been on the 14" Ibanez for so long I think I just like a flatter radius (think my 96 L.Star is also flatter then 9.5).
From the specs the "Fender" Stangs and Jags  have a 9.5.
So pretty much I can't buy what I wan't from Fender.
I have not had any seat time with a Jaguar ever...so I don't know if the bridge is going to bother me over the standard style bridge on the Mustang (that felt good on my palm that I tend to rest near the bridge).
I have played a few Les Pauls and the bridge always bothers me...so I would assume a Jag might feel strange as well.

I played the 1 5/8 nut tele as well and have pretty much decided I like a 5/8 nut on a 25.5 neck...No idea if I would on short scale.

So now I need to decide what to do.
Aesthetically....I would prefer a Strat or Tele body with a Jag neck.Well..I can't buy that.


I am not convinced if moving from 25.5 to 24.75 conversion is going to make as big of a difference as to moving to a Jag/Stang neck. So I am considering doing a cheap conversion 24.75 with a in stock neck (unfinished) and taking a chance that it will work out. Only way to know is to get my hands on one.

Max Budget towards a Warmoth build is around 500 unfortunately...so I don't think I can scratch build a  7/8 deal for that with the hardware I would like to use.. Also did not realize about the stud install thing until today...so I would most likely need buy a bridge from W to speed up the process and not pull parts from the L.Star.

I have considered building a Jag or Mustang from Warmoth stuff..but again without a donor guitar...it is most likely going to blow the available money.
Other option is to buy the Squire Mustang HH and get a W neck...some good tuners and pickups.
Or something used as a donor that maybe has better hardware.

Thanks for all the input today guys...was a huge help. ccasion14:

 

[rgand]

Other option is to buy the Squire Mustang HH and get a W neck...some good tuners and pickups.

This is a decent idea. That way, you get it working within your budget and upgrade other parts, or not, at your leisure while having it to play.

 

[jdroost]

I think I am just going to order a "in stock" conversion neck for the Strat and finish it myself.
No Wizard profiles on the shelf...but they have a few standard thin 1 5/8 nut necks in stock.
It's not a huge investment overall...and lets me get my feet wet with a Warmoth product.

Do you guys think going with the larger 6100 fretwire would be helpful to me...or is it going to overcrowd a altered scale neck?
I have become accustomed to the Ibanez wire.

Thanks in advance.

 

[spe111]

I'd order a roasted maple neck or something else that doesn't need a finish.

 

[jdroost]

Good point.
Any thoughts on the fretwire?