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Stain, sand back, then tru-oil?

TonyFlyingSquirrel

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I've done Tru-Oil directly, but not over a grain filled/sanded back stain, ala those available via StewMac.

Any counsel?

I'm admittedly not a finish guy, but I can do it if needed.

 
I did this guy with General Finishes water-based dye stains, filled the ash backside with tinted Timbermate filler, and I'm very happy with the results.  You can tell my fill job fell short of perfect - lots of visible pores. 


You'll also see on the finished product that the stain did not take along the curve of the belly contour.  I burned through the color when sanding back the filler and it just wouldn't take any more stain.  I must have burnished it too smooth - nothing for the dye to soak into.  So be advised that's a trouble spot with ash.


I stained it black, then sanded back, then dyed with amber and walnut for the burst.  I sealed with shellac, then filled the grain. Then I started in with the Tru-oil.


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Well, you won't need to fill the grain then, for which you should count yourself lucky.  Do you have an image that shows the look you're going for?
 
Bagman67 said:
Well, you won't need to fill the grain then, for which you should count yourself lucky.  Do you have an image that shows the look you're going for?

As close to this as one can get with Poplar or Basswood on a Pearl JS-7 style Ibanez replacement body.  Gonna replace my RG7620 body with a Satch style & load it up with EMG 57-7/66-7's.
http://www.warmoth.com/Showcase/ShowcaseItem.aspx?Body=2&Path=Spotlight&core=3&bFinish=310&i=MP530#.V7iBL2VlnjA
 
Ah, that's very likely a tinted toner, rather than a stain or dye. 


I should think it will be easier to get that kind of effect with basswood than with poplar, given poplar's tendency to have a lot of green streaks.  Usually you see basswood and poplar with solid colors because they are so visually uninteresting compared to other species. Obviously you'll want to pick up some lumber to experiment on.  Poplar and basswood are both pretty cheap, and available at your local big box home improvement store in small project precut sizes.


But I got that kind of result on my green tele (after a great deal of experimentation) by making a stain out of Mixol universal pigment in a vehicle of 2:1 lacquer thinner and lacquer retarder.  That was on mahogany, though, and I'm not sure how well basswood or poplar will take a stain.  This example was done using  Mixol No. 13 Grass Green.

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Another approach you could try might be to seal with an initial coat of tru-oil, to avoid uneven uptake of the color, and then apply a number of tinted coats of Tru-oil to build up to the color strength you want.  Then topcoat with more Tru-oil once you get the color where you want it.  Again, experiment on scrap.  It's a lot easier on the ol' ticker when you screw up.

Given Tru-oil is a polymerized oil, you might even be able to use artists' oil colors as your pigment if there's a particular shade you like.  That might save you the headache of trying to get to the desired shade of blue.  Just thinkin' outside the box here, having failed to achieve desired colors with pigments myself.  Blending is hard, and requires actual recipes or life experience to get it right.  I know from experience the Mixol No. 9 Blue is not as rich as the blue in your example.  You'd need to combine with some purple and black to get it where you want it.
 
Bagman67 said:
Ah, that's very likely a tinted toner, rather than a stain or dye. 


I should think it will be easier to get that kind of effect with basswood than with poplar, given poplar's tendency to have a lot of green streaks.  Usually you see basswood and poplar with solid colors because they are so visually uninteresting compared to other species. [/size]Obviously you'll want to pick up some lumber to experiment on.  Poplar and basswood are both pretty cheap, and available at your local big box home improvement store in small project precut sizes.


But I got that kind of result on my green tele (after a great deal of experimentation) by making a stain out of Mixol universal pigment in a vehicle of 2:1 lacquer thinner and lacquer retarder.  That was on mahogany, though, and I'm not sure how well basswood or poplar will take a stain.  This example was done using  Mixol No. 13 Grass Green.


[/size]


Another approach you could try might be to seal with an initial coat of tru-oil, to avoid uneven uptake of the color, and then apply a number of tinted coats of Tru-oil to build up to the color strength you want.  Then topcoat with more Tru-oil once you get the color where you want it.  Again, experiment on scrap.  It's a lot easier on the ol' ticker when you screw up.


Given Tru-oil is a polymerized oil, you might even be able to use artists' oil colors as your pigment if there's a particular shade you like.  That might save you the headache of trying to get to the desired shade of blue.  Just thinkin' outside the box here, having failed to achieve desired colors with pigments myself.  Blending is hard, and requires actual recipes or life experience to get it right.  I know from experience the Mixol No. 9 Blue is not as rich as the blue in your example.  You'd need to combine with some purple and black to get it where you want it.

Your images aren't uploading, but the last example you shared is more along the lines of what I was looking for.
Thanks much for the wise counsel!
 
That's a beautiful job on your Strat, Bagman. I've been toying with doing a stain finish and this helps give me some direction. Having never finished a body myself, it's all new to me. Thanks.
 
rgand said:
Having never finished a body myself, it's all new to me. Thanks.

If nothing else, it'll give you a whole new appreciation for what people charge to do finishes. You'll probably end up wondering why they'll do it so cheap.
 
Cagey said:
rgand said:
Having never finished a body myself, it's all new to me. Thanks.

If nothing else, it'll give you a whole new appreciation for what people charge to do finishes. You'll probably end up wondering why they'll do it so cheap.
I can see that already. I'm a firm believer that the best reason to do your own is to get something not readily available.
 
Yeah, that and sometimes you just end up with an unfinished or wrecked finish body that has to be dealt with. I usually end up doing at least one body and a couple necks per year because of that. But, while I've got the equipment and experience to pull it off well, it's still a helluva lotta work. Warmoth only asks $200-$250 for a perfect poly finish. A DIY lacquer job will probably run you half that in supplies and materials, so doing your own means a solid 20+ hours work just to save $100-$150. You can make more than that in the same amount of time flippin' burgers at McDonald's :laughing7:
 
Cagey said:
Yeah, that and sometimes you just end up with an unfinished or wrecked finish body that has to be dealt with. I usually end up doing at least one body and a couple necks per year because of that. But, while I've got the equipment and experience to pull it off well, it's still a helluva lotta work. Warmoth only asks $200-$250 for a perfect poly finish. A DIY lacquer job will probably run you half that in supplies and materials, so doing your own means a solid 20+ hours work just to save $100-$150. You can make more than that in the same amount of time flippin' burgers at McDonald's :laughing7:
Well put. :icon_biggrin:
 
TonyFlyingSquirrel said:
I've done Tru-Oil directly, but not over a grain filled/sanded back stain, ala those available via StewMac.

Any counsel?

I'm admittedly not a finish guy, but I can do it if needed.

Top one was sanded, sealed, a coloured grain filler applied sanded back and then loads of coats of true-oil. time consuming but easy. Apart from the grain filler that stuff was 'orrible to scrape off.

5215FF98-68E7-43A5-BAAF-FBA32E78DF37_zpslrdkhn40.jpg
 
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