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So the New Guy has a pup question.....Tone???

USC-Blues

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Hey y'all

For those of you that may have seen my post on this my first build. I've hit a small bump in the road that I'm sure most builders have faced at one time or another. Here's the situation...I was set on putting Lace Hot Golds on this build (still might) but a respected friend with more experience that I tells me I will be much happier with Duncan Vintage Staggers.
I have my order into Warmoth for the PG, Tuners, knobs....but the Pickup choices are a complete mystery now. The Lace Hot Golds were chosen on feedback I have read on other forums. So I humbly come to our forum for suggestions. I'm not so sure what "Tone" is.... Yeah I have guitarist the I Love to listen to...SRV, EVH, Schenker the UFO days. So throw out opinions and why?

Lace, Lollar, Duncan, etc

Thank you in advance. :rock-on:

SK
 
What type of music do you usually play?  The Lace Golds are really clear and bell-like, the Hot Golds are similar but designed for more crunch when distorted.  Sensors are designed a lot differently than most pickups and the whole idea of that series is that they are noise-free, which some people like and some people don't. 

It really depends on what type of music you are playing.  Robert Smith would probably be all over the Lace stuff, where as Jack White wouldn't want anything like that.

It's also kind of a new technology vs. vintage thing. 

 
Thank you hannaugh. Since this will be my first build I'll be all over the place....Blues, metal, Classic rock, seem to come to mind. It will be a hard tail (Hipshot) and my next build already in the works will be an Explorer, TOM w/ 2 Humbuckers.

Feedback always welcome. I have learned with PUP questions we can go many many directions. This Hard northern ash and Goncalo / Ebony neck shoud sound bright. Still don't know if that's a good thing. Amp selection for home will be a littel Roland miro cube if I go the stage rout I'm thinking Hiwatt or name brand Tube amp.
 
I don't think Lace Sensors are what you want... SRV uses vintage/hot strat pups.  EVH uses hot crunchy PAFs.  You could do an HSS if you want some of both.  I think Michael Schenker is also a humbucker guy.
 
I feel ya dbw. This one will be three singles. See works in progrss on my Strat. :guitaristgif:  I'll go 2 HB's on the next build. #2 Warmoth Explor. :headbang:
 
Well, I have not tried these yet, but the board generally speaks highly of the Callaham/Fralin H/SRV Specials.  Vintage-like, but a bit hotter.
Patrick

 
USC-Blues, one of the things you have to consider which pickup to use and how it will replicates the sounds you hear be it SRV, EVH, Schenker etc. is to look at your signal chain and the final output amp you would like to use with this guitar.  If you are into minimalistic approach like a straight guitar through a vintage sounding tube amp, the Duncan Vintage Staggers would go well.  However if you run through a whole chain of effects or a multi-fx processor, Lace Hot Golds will probably serve you better.

Remember, Duncan Vintage Staggers do hum and this noise get louder as you boost this signal further through stomp boxes or multi-fx.  On the other hand, Lace Hot Golds are relatively quite due to its unique construction.  Some even described it as a plain palete that can be shaped for whatever tone one desires, even replicating P90 or humbucker tones beyond its single coil sounding qualities.  It is also hotter so that it can reach overdrive/distortion easier.

Personally, I like them both for the specific tones I can dial in.

If one of  the other forums you have refered to is Fender Discussion Page, check out the Pup Tent forum and search for SMark.  He has a lot of sound clips of him playing using Lace Hot Golds.
 
Blues, Metal, Classic rock...

you need to look at this thread by Jack:

http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=6161.0

that is a killer strat setup IMO
 
SRV uses vintage/hot strat pups.  EVH uses hot crunchy PAFs.

SRV is DEAD.... there were no "Texas Special" pickups back then, that's just what Fender wants to sell you. EVH is too brain-addled to know what's in his guitars anymore, he's a shill for a manufacturing concern who wants to cash in on his ex-talent. (His tone since 1988 suuuucks..... and it's getting worse, the harder he tries. There's a moral there somewhere.) :hello2:

Ahem. There are two major considerations about pickups:

1) Power. A more powerful pickup will more easily overdrive a good-sounding amplifier or preamp or even (MODELER... GASP!) in such a way as to produce a pleasing overdriven sound. A lower-powered pickup may not overdrive a preamp as easily, but bear in mind that almost all of the "great classic rock sounds" that amp modelers are modeling were made with wimpy, low-powered pickups. Except in the minds of marketing conmen who want your money, there is no such thing as "vintage overwound" - it's either/or. It's interesting to compare genuine "classic rock" sounds to modern - most old Led Zeppelin, Allmans, Cream, even Hendrix guitar tracks sound squeaky-clean compared to even a modern country guitar sound, back then overdrive was applied to very few, very specific places in a song. When you dick with a modern amp, modeler or program, most of the "classic" sounds happen in between about 15 and 30 on the "preamp" knob - everything above that is frying tinfoil, because the marketing conmen think that'll convince you that you sound "hot" - to make a wimpy low-powered pickup sound like that you may have to turn their toy up to 40. :icon_tongue:

2) Tonal spectrum. What is the relationship between the levels of low, midrange and higher frequencies? Humbuckings concentrate in the midrange, single-coils have lots more highs, somewhat more lows (at an equal volume) and are "scooped" in the midrange. Most everything you hear about this dates back to the 1960's and early 70's when guitarists were struggling to get a consistent overdriven sound out of early primitive Marshall & Fender amplifiers. At that time, the more power a pickup had, the "better" it was. Nowadays, it's possible to overdrive any amp with any pickup.... so the fact that most overpowered pickups sound muddy has become more apparent. More windings=less treble. There are a few higher-powered pickups like the Laces, the Lawrences, the Lawrence-designed Fender noiseless that avoid the mud with some different electronic tweaks.

Your amplifier is the second-most important thing in your tonal chain. There are now great-sounding, less-expensive options out there, but any decent amplifier is going to have way more treble, way more bass, and way more midrange than you'll even want to hear - so the MOST important thing is how you choose to set the knobs. If you really want to sound great, count on spending six hours a day for a decade or so - most every really great musician went through at least a few years of 12 - 16 hour days of practice. All of the pickup choices you mentioned will work just fine for that. :toothy12:

Do you want a creamy overdrive? Do you like grit in your cream? I like crunchy cream myself, with blooming scream, but only when my meat is detailed & girthy, with transparent spank - oh just bag it all and score one of these:

Yng1.jpg

Yng2.jpg


Only $12,500, Yngwie-approved and all of your friends will be very amused at parties....

(FREE shipping too!) - http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-Custom-Shop-Yngwie-Malmsteen-Tribute-Stratocaster-Electric-Guitar?sku=526795
 
Patrick from Davis said:
  the board generally speaks highly of the Callaham/Fralin H/SRV Specials.  Vintage-like, but a bit hotter.
Patrick

Thank you Patrick. Yeah "Fralin" is another pick up people do rave about.


Unwound G said:
  However if you run through a whole chain of effects or a multi-fx processor, Lace Hot Golds will probably serve you better.
  Some even described it as a plain palete that can be shaped for whatever tone one desires, even replicating P90 or humbucker tones beyond its single coil sounding qualities.  It is also hotter so that it can reach overdrive/distortion easier.

Personally, I like them both for the specific tones I can dial in.

Thank you UG...I know me well enough. I will have some toys in the chain..lol

If one of  the other forums you have refered to is Fender Discussion Page, check out the Pup Tent forum and search for SMark.  He has a lot of sound clips of him playing using Lace Hot Golds.

This cat is one of the reasons I was so over the top about the LHG. Dude seems to know what he likes. Experience is a great teacher.

stubhead said:
SRV uses vintage/hot strat pups.  EVH uses hot crunchy PAFs.

there were no "Texas Special" pickups back then, that's just what Fender wants to sell you. EVH is too brain-addled to know what's in his guitars anymore, 


1) Power. A more powerful pickup will more easily overdrive a good-sounding amplifier or preamp or even (MODELER... GASP!) in such a way as to produce a pleasing overdriven sound.  . Except in the minds of marketing conmen who want your money, there is no such thing as "vintage overwound" - it's either/or. 

2) Tonal spectrum.  There are a few higher-powered pickups like the Laces, the Lawrences, the Lawrence-designed Fender noiseless that avoid the mud with some different electronic tweaks.


Your amplifier is the second-most important thing in your tonal chain.  - so the MOST important thing is how you choose to set the knobs.

If you really want to sound great, count on spending six hours a day for a decade or so - most every really great musician went through at least a few years of 12 - 16 hour days of practice. All of the pickup choices you mentioned will work just fine for that. :toothy12:

Do you want a creamy overdrive? Do you like grit in your cream? I like crunchy cream myself, with blooming scream, but only when my meat is detailed & girthy, with transparent spank - oh just bag it all and score one of these:

Yng1.jpg

Yng2.jpg


Only $12,500, Yngwie-approved and all of your friends will be very amused at parties....

(FREE shipping too!) - http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-Custom-Shop-Yngwie-Malmsteen-Tribute-Stratocaster-Electric-Guitar?sku=526795


Stubhead.. Man you rock :headbang: That Yngwie relic is about what I have in my 4 year olds college fund. lol I actually think I've learned more from each of you in the last 15 minutes than 3-4 trips to the local Austin music stores.

I will have a few pedals in the chain. That's part of the fun. As for SRV, EHV and Shenker...Love there sound but wiping the rust of these fingers has let me know that I have a long way to go and much more practice before I even develop my "own sound" if there is such a thing.

This forum is awsome :hello2: Thank each of you for some real imput and helping educate me in an, always friendly way.
 
If your looking for that Gold Lace type of sound, I think you should look at either Lollar Blondes or some Fralin Real 54s.
 
You're referencing sounds from completely different sources...

The Fender Custom Shop Fat 50's are a decent set for classic Strat sound, the SRV/Texas Specials are essentially the same set slight overwound, more so on the bridge PU. (Note to Stubhead - while there weren't sets like this back in the day, there always was some variation in Fender single coils, SRV's main #1 Strat had 50s/early 60s style Fender SCs that were at the high end of the range and that's what they try to recreate in the Texas Special set)

The Rio Grande Dual Calibrated set is another good choice, wound hotter than the FCS sets mentioned above.

As the "sounds" you mention wanting to emulate are 1.) Vintage Strat 2.) Strat with bridge HB 3.) Flying V with duals HBs, you might want to consider an S-S-H setup, Rio Grande Vintage Tallboy - Halfbreed - TX or BBQ HB in bridge would work for that....
 
In any case you'll probably want a hotter than vintage bridge to get your heavier sounds, if you're set on SSS. I'm a huge fan of Lollar based on the P90 and tele bridge I've bought, but I think his stuff tends to the super-clear vintagey sounds. I also love the zero BS salesmanship, helpful web site, and non-mystical language he uses to describe his stuff. Eventually I'll buy more product from him for sure. He does make a 'special' strat set that's hotter than the stock, that might be the ticket for you. I'd say call him up, they are great on the phone with advice and recommendations.
 
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