Sherwin Williams Laquer

[drysideshooter]

I am going to be finishing a Warmoth alder strat body and a maple neck with maple fretboard.  I am going for a pretty organic look and don't plan to use any tints, just clear on the body and neck.  I have a professional auto body HVLP system and have a finish gun. 

I want to make sure I'm on the right track.  To seal the neck and body I'm thinking a 50/50 mixture of Sherwin Williams 24% solids vinyl sealer and K27 thinner/retarder.  I'm thinking two coats of that on the body and neck?  Sand with 400-600 grit if needed after that?  For the lacquer I'm thinking Sherwin Williams Hi-Bild nitro mixed 50/50 with the K27 thinner retarder.  I would prefer the neck to be less glossy than the body, especially the back.  Should I accomplish that by fewer coats followed by some sanding/buffing?  Would 1 coat of lacquer over 2 coasts of the sealer on the entire neck be adequate?  I saw some pictures of a neck someone did with one coat of the sealer, one tinting coat, and 1 coat of lacquer and it ended up not being very high gloss and looked almost satin. Since I'm not going to do a tint coat I thought maybe two coats of the sealer, or would I be better off with one coat of sealer and two coats of lacquer?  I'm thinking maybe 3-4 for the body and polishing it a bit more?

This is my first build.  Any and all advice would be really appreciated.  I've thought about seeing what Sherwin Williams may have available for a satin lacquer for the neck. 

ON EDIT:  Also, I'm not opposed to using Tru Oil for the body and neck, or lacquer on the neck and Tru Oil on the body.  I've read mixed reviews of how Tru Oil works on a maple fretboard.  Any thoughts.  I do like the look of the Tru Oil finishes I've seen. I know the lacquer is probably quicker, and I have good equipment to spray it, but I don't mind taking the time to do a hand Tru Oil finish either.  I've heard of some folks using Tru Oil on a maple neck with maple fretboard and then spraying a coat of lacquer over the Tru Oil on the fretboard for extra durability.  Any thoughts on that?

 

[Cagey]

I wouldn't go any finer than 320 grit between coats, or you may get into adhesion problems.

1 coat of lacquer over 2 coats of sealer is going to be so thin finish sanding may just take it all off. I'd think 4 would be minimum, might want more. If you want a less glossy finish, a scotchbrite pad will take the shine off.

TruOil can be made to look/feel nice, but I'm not a big fan of it on instruments. It's not really durable enough for the kind of use they get. Usually, it (or something like it) gets used by apartment dwellers or those who for whatever reason can't spray lacquer or poly. As for putting it under lacquer, I'm not sure why you'd do that on purpose. If you can spray lacquer, there's no point in putting something relatively soft under it. Besides, I'm not sure lacquer will stick to it very well. But, even if it would, why do it if you don't have to? I have a body here that's already got TruOil on it and the first thing I'm going to do is strip it before I do anything else. I'm not gonna do all the work of putting a fine lacquer finish on it and have it go wonky on me.

 

[pabloman]

TruOil works just fine on a maple fretboard. It leaves a really nice tint as well. Darker than fresh maple but not yellow like the aged tint. Laquer over the top of TruOil works just fine. As far as durability goes it depends what your idea of durable is. It is after all a gunstock finish so I imagine you'd be able to treat your neck like an old hunting rifle and ok. I have several all maple necks I've finished with TruOil and love them. I finished them in the double car garage in our modest 3 bedroom home though. Maybe it'd be more of a sub par compromise if I lived in an apartment :dontknow:. I have a 30 gallon compressor and 6 different spray guns but chose the TruOil because I wanted TruOil. Maybe get some maple boards and give it a go. It's also available in an aerosol can. Either way good luck  ccasion14:.

 

[stratamania]

Considering Musicman, uses Tru oil for a neck finish and is used by a number of touring musicians and if needed can be easily given some maintenance the durability question I think is a non-issue and was probably originated by those living in the next apartment spraying lacquer for a living.

Plus Tru oil on a neck feels a hell of a lot better than a lacquer or poly finish.

 

[drysideshooter]

Thanks for the information everyone, it is genuinely appreciated. 

The ability to fairly easily touch up any slight damage with Tru Oil has some appeal.

I'm going to evaluate the body when it gets here.  If the alder doesn't have as much character as it looks like it does in pictures it will probably get painted a solid color.  I think no matter what, I will probably do the neck in Tru Oil.

I am wanting a light colored finish.  Is there anything I can do to enhance the grain of the body without darkening it much?

 

[Cagey]

Probably, but I suspect it would still be less than striking. Alder just isn't an exhibitionist wood. Sometimes you'll see a piece that has some interesting grain to it, but they're fairly thin on the ground. That's not necessarily a Bad Thing - sometimes you want a wood that doesn't try to grab the spotlight. For example, I'm a big fan of Black Ebony, which in its best form you almost need a microscope to see any grain. But, you can still tell it's wood, which gives a piece a certain cachet.

 

[drysideshooter]

There is a decent chance that I will end up painting the body white if I don't like the appearance of the wood.  I'm a builder and developer and just got off the phone with the commercial coatings guy that supplies our cabinet shop.  Thankfully the guy was also familiar with finishing guitars as he has supplied some materials to a couple friends that have finished stringed instruments.  I got a pretty thorough education on the various lacquers and why nitro tends to yellow over time.  We do a lot of homes with mixed exterior materials with combinations of stucco, cement siding, steel, etc.  He has a guy that is amazing at color matching. He said if I can get them a sample of what I'm looking for they will get me the exact match. 

Unless I can get a satin lacquer that I like the sounds of, I will probably end up using tru oil on the neck and fretboard, unless there are other suggestions for that?  I suppose I could use the gloss clear and just take it back with a micro pad or something for a smoother, faster, non-sticky finish?

 

[Cagey]

One of our other members here who goes by "Tonar" is a top-notch finishing guy, and what he likes to do with regular raw Maple necks is burnish them, then give them a light treatment of BLO (Boiled Linseed Oil). He's not had any problems with that treatment, and swears by it. The results are terrific. There used to be some good shots of them, but he used to use Photobucket to link his pics so many of them aren't viewable now without some dicking around.

Personally, I've become quite evangelical about unfinished exotic/unconventional neck woods so I rarely finish necks any more. When I do, I use gloss lacquer, as I don't have a problem with it, having fairly dry hands. I've had artificially "satin" finished necks, and been less than impressed. Same with the various polymerized oils. In both cases, it just seems like a compromise in feel/longevity for the sake of protecting the neck. Necks are easy enough to get these days that I think even with woods that don't like to live naked, I'd burnish them and keep them that way knowing I might have to replace them a couple/few years down the road. And who knows? You might not have to. Warmoth's experience has been that roughly 10% of unfinished necks of the most popular species will twist/warp, so you've got a 90% chance they won't. For as much better as a burnished neck feels, I think it's a good bet.

 

[drysideshooter]

One of our other members here who goes by "Tonar" is a top-notch finishing guy, and what he likes to do with regular raw Maple necks is burnish them, then give them a light treatment of BLO (Boiled Linseed Oil). He's not had any problems with that treatment, and swears by it. The results are terrific. There used to be some good shots of them, but he used to use Photobucket to link his pics so many of them aren't viewable now without some dicking around.

Personally, I've become quite evangelical about unfinished exotic/unconventional neck woods so I rarely finish necks any more. When I do, I use gloss lacquer, as I don't have a problem with it, having fairly dry hands. I've had artificially "satin" finished necks, and been less than impressed. Same with the various polymerized oils. In both cases, it just seems like a compromise in feel/longevity for the sake of protecting the neck. Necks are easy enough to get these days that I think even with woods that don't like to live naked, I'd burnish them and keep them that way knowing I might have to replace them a couple/few years down the road. And who knows? You might not have to. Warmoth's experience has been that roughly 10% of unfinished necks of the most popular species will twist/warp, so you've got a 90% chance they won't. For as much better as a burnished neck feels, I think it's a good bet.

Cagey your timing is amazing!  I was just reading a thread from 2012 where you talking about burnishing a neck.  With a maple fretboard would you just work up through the grades of paper on it and leave it unfinished as well?  Seems like sanding between the frets might be a bit of a pain, but with that fine of grade of paper any marks on the frets would be easy to polish out anyway.  I have to say there is a lot of appeal to the organic nature of an uncoated neck.  One of these days I would enjoy trying a roasted maple neck. 

ON EDIT:  Reading that thread some more, maybe I should use Lacquer on the fretboard and headstock, burnish the back of the next up to 2000 grit and then use boiled linseed oil on the back?

 

[Cagey]

Burnishing the fretboard is pretty much out of the question once it's fretted. Your second choice makes more sense, where you lacquer the fretboard, burnish the neck meat and use BLO on it, and call it a love story.

For your next neck, get roasted Maple with no frets, burnish the whole thing, then fret it with stainless or EVO. You'll be so happy, your wife will think you're cheating on her with a porn star who only has 2 weeks to live :laughing7:

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Ya know?
Schwinn Bicycle paint was all good ole EVH ever needed.  :glasses10: