+1 Street. What has that shop ever done for you to deserve you paying their rediculous markups? Those small stores are going out of business because they can't compete. Plain and simple. It sucks but that is just how it is. Nobody is out there worrying about Pablo taking care of his family or paying the rent or whatever. While it's nice to support your local music store the relationship needs to be give and take and I'm not talkin just take my money and give me the overpriced strings. I went to work for GC when they came to town and the local music store shut down whithin 6 mos. Not because he couldn't compete with GC but because he was an arrogant SOB. He had his store for 20 years and was the only game in town. So he conducted business that way. His DB sales guys treated everybody like shit. It sucked. He was a Mesa, Peavey, Fender/Jackson, Takamine, Orange, Marshall, Ernie Ball, Hamer, Genz-Benz, Black Cat dealer. He also carried a huge line of Seymour Duncan and DiMarzio pups. He had alot of boutique pups, pedals and amps. He had a big selection of keys, percussion live sound and recording stuff too. There is no reason he shouldn't have been able to compete. Our GC was the smallest ever. We couldn't carry certain things and had our prices locked on others because of this guy and distribution agreements so it's not like we could just whore out the gear to beat his prices. Our store would sponsor an open mic night every month at a bar. We would take a bunch of gear out there and a P.A. We sponsored a battle of the bands through the university here. We would donate starter packs to schools to either keep or raffle off. We donated gear to be auctioned for benefits for musicians and so forth. All of this was done at a loss because corporate usually wouldn't sponsor anything. When we had a good day in sales we would just zero out the gear. This was all done because of the people that worked in the the store not because GC can afford it. It actually affected our checks directly. Our town population is less than 102K and the store would do $120K in gross sales every month. March and January usually saw around $200K while November and December would bring about $250K. Given our population that always amazed me. We brought in customers from the surrounding areas but that still is maybe another 30K of total population. This happened for the 2 years I was there. With that type of potential there is no reason a Mom and Pop couldn't survive. It's because of the people and what we did for ou community. That guy had a full repair shop too. All we were allowed to do was string changes and setups. :dontknow:
Shady guitar tech...gah.
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Firebird211
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I have three major music stores in my area, Marshall Music, Music Manor, and Elderly Instruments. They are all typical music stores, stuff is expensive, and they have a limited selection, but of course would order anything you want. I made the mistake of ordering a pup from Elderly, which took many weeks before they said it was backordered. I can't say any one of them are all that bad, but I have found it quicker and easyer to order online, like through Musician's Friend. Even Musician's Friend isn't the cheapest, it is reasonable and they have most everything in stock, and they get it to you in less than a week. I would rather play a guitar before i buy it, but I took a chance and got my Schecter online, and I am very happy with it. I suppose music stores can be a little more money because you pay for the convenience of being able to go and try stuff in person, but they do need good service. Most of the ones in my area are decent in that area, but don't let them order anything for you. :laughing7: Don't pay anymore than you have to.
AutoBat
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My local music store is great. As far as I can tell it's owned and operated by 1 guy. It's a nice laid back store and everything is available for trying out. I know at least 1 other board member has been to his shop in Broad Ripple (in Indianapolis). I'll shop there for all my needs aside from strings, 'cause I'm picky about my brand & size, and GC is the only brick & mortar that carries them, and they're too far away.
Strat Avenger
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Jusatele said:
Exactly what does that mean? When was I "wishing" for anything?
Jusatele
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it is an old saying
it means be careful about what you want, because when you get it, you find the limits of it
So not supporting your local store, and soon you are forced to either go online or GC,Sam Ash or such
And you realize how convenient that store down the street was.
So spout off about them being thieves or assholes, but when they are gone and you are forced to drive all that way, or order online, well you wanted that.
it means be careful about what you want, because when you get it, you find the limits of it
So not supporting your local store, and soon you are forced to either go online or GC,Sam Ash or such
And you realize how convenient that store down the street was.
So spout off about them being thieves or assholes, but when they are gone and you are forced to drive all that way, or order online, well you wanted that.
Ummm...............He already said he shops online. Who wants to pay jacked up prices on gear? If it's cheaper online then so be it. Maybe you can afford to pay exaggerated prices, good for you. If there is a store that doesn't really do anything for me except have items available for my purchase then what loyalty do I owe them? It's nice to support a local business but it's even difficult for some to support a damn family. I earn every cent I have so a business better do something to earn it from me. If providing me with the best value is what they do then that is a great start. But again to each his own and I applaude you for your attempts to remain loyal. 
arty07:
arty07:
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Jusatele said:
I don't wish to do away with music stores. I'm just saying that for Me, buying online is beneficial about 90% of the time. I also don't subscribe to the point of view that someone can't wait four or five days to receive an item if it's going to save them money. I have bought cables from the local GC, because it WAS convenient. In any case, I have the luxury of being able to setup my own guitars, as well as do my own repairs. I always feel bad for players who get ripped off by music store guitar techs who either charge too much, or simply don't really know what they're doing.
jay4321
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Jusatele said:
I don't think he (or anyone else here) has anything against small local music stores. I grew up going to Irv's Music in Atlantic City and appreciate the charm, but a lot has changed since 1990. There's nothing convenient about waiting on special order parts for 2 weeks, or paying what are usually higher prices, at least not when I can order the same thing for less and have it at my doorstep in 2-3 days. The internet has done a lot to empower the buyers with options they just didn't have before.
All of the political arguments in the world aren't going to change consumer behavior. It's just a fact that things are far tougher for these small shops now, just as it is as many retail-based industries. They're still going to have to earn people's business and find ways to go the extra mile.
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jay4321 said:
Right. A lot of people seem to think there's some kind of malignant conspiracy being perpetrated by the larger businesses, wherein they destroy all competition as if it's some sort of disease. That's not the case at all. It's the consumers who demand more and better goods at lower and lower prices. The only way to satisfy that is to introduce some economies of scale, and size allows for that. The mom & pop stores could do the same thing, but they'd have a hard time justifying (if they could even afford it) a trainload of pickups to get a good price. So, they end up being less competitive and the business moves away from them. There's no malice, it's just reality. I do the same thing for beer. Kroger has it for $18/case, the little guy down the street wants $21/case. Kroger is open 24 hours, the little guy is open 16. It's the same beer. What am I supposed to do?
I get a kick out of these music (or any specialty) store guys who say "I can get it for you". Yeah, so? What am I, a prisoner or some kind of mental defective? I can get it for me, too. If I wanted to wait 3 to 14 days, I'd have already ordered it and pocketed the difference for later when I go to Kroger's for their delicious, low-priced cold beer. If you want to make extra profit, one of the things you have to do is invest in inventory, have some demonstrable product available, and know some gory details about it that aren't common knowledge. Those qualities add value, and sometimes I'm willing to pay for that.
erogenousjones17
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I think Cagey and Jay pretty much hit the nail on the head there. I love little mom & pop music stores as much as the next guy, but let's face it: they're (often) just not competitive, especially when it comes to the internet, where not only you can get quality stuff ( once the hallmark of the small retailer, as opposed to big-box crap), but you can get it faster and at a lower price. It's win-win for the consumer, but it sure sucks for the guy at your local guitar shop.
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the mom and pop I go to admits that if they lost their School band rental business they would be out of business, the monthly payments they get during the school year for rented horns and stuff is what pays the brick and mortar bills. They have been in the same building for so long everyone goes to them. It is funny how each year they get in a crapload of new instruments as by the time the student models get paid off and make a profit, they start to give up the ghost and need a lot of repairs, so they get about 2 seasons of profit on them, 5 years total, and recycle them.
That is their way to make ends meet, I know of one shop around here who has a pawn license and does a huge business in used Instruments as his base, but sadly I have seen way to many shut down in the last 20 years. The shame is not my convenience, but the effect it has on the availability of stuff like techs in the neighborhood and guitar lessons being offered, You know that most of us learn to play in a room in the back of a music store. The store closest to me still has about 6 rooms that have a teacher in each making a living off teaching.
That is their way to make ends meet, I know of one shop around here who has a pawn license and does a huge business in used Instruments as his base, but sadly I have seen way to many shut down in the last 20 years. The shame is not my convenience, but the effect it has on the availability of stuff like techs in the neighborhood and guitar lessons being offered, You know that most of us learn to play in a room in the back of a music store. The store closest to me still has about 6 rooms that have a teacher in each making a living off teaching.
jay4321
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For as well as I remember Irv's and a couple other music spots (long gone), I still don't know if I'd shop much at them today. I'm not a particularly wealthy man and some of these smaller businesses have become kind of a luxury.
I mean I could shop at the local family-run market instead of the chain supermarket, or I could go to the local hardware store over Depot or Lowe's, or maybe I could find some local shoe shop instead of the department store, or I could go pay cover price for a book that's 45% off at Amazon. But I definitely can't do all of them. There are just so many Mom and Pop businesses out there, and I only have so many dollars to go around.
I mean I could shop at the local family-run market instead of the chain supermarket, or I could go to the local hardware store over Depot or Lowe's, or maybe I could find some local shoe shop instead of the department store, or I could go pay cover price for a book that's 45% off at Amazon. But I definitely can't do all of them. There are just so many Mom and Pop businesses out there, and I only have so many dollars to go around.
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rapfohl09 said:
Well, at least not unless you have something special to offer that can't be had from the internet or the big box stores.
For example, low-priced studios would be nice. I don't know why nobody's doing that yet. Technology has moved so far so fast, you can build what used to be a $250K studio for about $10K-$15K, and it'll have better specs and turn out product faster. ROI on a place like that would be fast, and many places already have the room to do it. Even if you didn't make any money on it, it would bring in a clientele that would spend money.
The days of the big studios that cost boatloads of money and usurious distribution deals with questionable accounting practices are numbered. Recorded music media has become "infinite goods", and so has been reduced in value to very near zero. 355 million copies of something doesn't cost any more than 1 copy of it, they're all as good as the original master, and distribution is nearly free. What are the labels trying to sell anymore?
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I agree with most of thatCagey said:
but, organization and artist development are places we need some sort of center or base, As of now how many guys put out the gold or better records they once did, well then how many guys without a label get national air time, and how about do we depend on shows like Idol for new talent to be spread across the united states?
Labels can be huge artist rip offs, but they have the ability to make an act more than a "please come to our stage and purchase a CD" artist. Face it the internet is great, but how many Indie artist make it big on the net? I have to search for the latest Cracker Disk, In the early 90s they were in every store in America because of a #1 hit
mullyman
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Yeah, I try to support my local shop as much as I can but in the end I gotta look out for myself. Why should I pay 350 bucks for a set of pickups when I can go online and get them for 200? My Martin is a great example. I just recently bought a 000-28EC. The shop near my house was quoting me, the lowest they could, around 2800 bucks. I got online and found it for 1900. Why on earth would I spend an extra thousand dollars just to help that shop out? They sure as hell aren't going to be sending any money my way when I can't put food on the table. Again, I'm willing to spend a little more at my local shop but if the price is waaaay of, no way. Online shopping for me.
MULLY
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