Sealer and Primer

Audiowonderland

Active member
Messages
61
Been testing different primers and sealers.  I started with Aquacoat products. They worked well enough.  Been researching the Duplicolor High build primer and primer sealer.  The high build primer would be fine for closed grains like alder but I think the Aquacoat would be the choice for things like ash and mahogany with the bigger pores. 

I have not used either for a long period. Are there any concerns with any type of color bleed with either?  I think the Duplicolor stuff is easier use for wood that it makes sense.  Prime it, seal it and get on with it.
 

alexreinhold

Senior member
Messages
473
Duplicolor has been used by many and if you stay within their system you should have no problems. Another good one is spraymax by the way.
 

DuckBaloo

Senior member
Messages
282
For Ash and Mahogany, I would be using a pore/grain filler, then sealing with either primer (for solid colors) or sanding sealer/vinyl sealer for my transparent finishes. I use enough primer or sealer coats to be able to level sand (applying 3 coats then sanding back, repeating until shiny spots are gone). Then color coat.

I don't see much use for sealer over primer, they both serve the same purpose, high solids for fast build up for leveling, most will use one or the other. But each system has its own finishing schedule/order.
 

Audiowonderland

Active member
Messages
61
alexreinhold said:
Duplicolor has been used by many and if you stay within their system you should have no problems. Another good one is spraymax by the way.

I picked up a can of the Spraymax. I need to make sure my respirator is appropriate for that stuff before I walk that path though.
 

Audiowonderland

Active member
Messages
61
DuckBaloo said:
For Ash and Mahogany, I would be using a pore/grain filler, then sealing with either primer (for solid colors) or sanding sealer/vinyl sealer for my transparent finishes. I use enough primer or sealer coats to be able to level sand (applying 3 coats then sanding back, repeating until shiny spots are gone). Then color coat.

I don't see much use for sealer over primer, they both serve the same purpose, high solids for fast build up for leveling, most will use one or the other. But each system has its own finishing schedule/order.

I was reading the documentation on the products and Duplicolor seem to be indicating the the sealer in question was designed to seal the primer. I need to go through that all again because it struck me as odd. I did a few test block to test the process and it came out really nice. At minimum it appears to cause no harm
 

DuckBaloo

Senior member
Messages
282
Audiowonderland said:
I was reading the documentation on the products and Duplicolor seem to be indicating the the sealer in question was designed to seal the primer.

I saw that...I just don't understand it. But each manufacturer has worked out their finishing schedule for a reason and I don't think it's just about selling more products.

I like to stay within a system, but if I mix and match, I usually introduce shellac in-between. It's like the rosetta stone of finishes, it'll stick to just about anything (except maybe silicone or oil) and just about anything will stick to it.

Audiowonderland said:
At minimum it appears to cause no harm

I agree, extra sealer coats do no harm.
 

Audiowonderland

Active member
Messages
61
alexreinhold said:
Duplicolor has been used by many and if you stay within their system you should have no problems. Another good one is spraymax by the way.

I am looking at the Spraymax 2k for the clear coat.  I am doing a striped, 2 color finish ala EVH that I need to bury under clear.  Is the 3 coats enough to do it or will I need more?

 
C

Cowbell Fever!

Guest
I would think you want at least 6-10 coats spraying. However, I like to use wipe on poly, and to get it nice and shiny that takes (for me) approx 20 plus coats. But it is applied super thin.
 

alexreinhold

Senior member
Messages
473
Audiowonderland said:
alexreinhold said:
Duplicolor has been used by many and if you stay within their system you should have no problems. Another good one is spraymax by the way.

I am looking at the Spraymax 2k for the clear coat.  I am doing a striped, 2 color finish ala EVH that I need to bury under clear.  Is the 3 coats enough to do it or will I need more?

3-4 coats will be more than enough. 2K lacquer is very powerful. It's actually not recommended to do much more with this product.

Here's a great tutorial (I followed exactly these steps on my first build and the results were awesome):

https://youtu.be/oqKFWrYDgmY

In the last two minutes he does the clear - doing 3 coats. In part 2 of the video, he does sanding and polishing step by step. I can only recommend following his approach - it's easy and effective.
 

DuckBaloo

Senior member
Messages
282
Yeah, the catalyzed poly is pretty much bomb-proof. A few coats is enough to seal because you'll never be able to get at and rework anything underneath it. Even lacquer thinner is useless against it. I, personally, don't touch a 2-part finishes (they scare me). The catalyst in Spraymax is isocyanate, which is high-VOC, yet odorless (so you don't know when you're breathing it in). And catalyzed finishes can't be washed off, they stick and cure to whatever they touch...skin, nasal passages, lungs, etc. A full-face respirator, the right cartridges, tyvek paint suit, and god vented booth would be musts for me.

I'm old school and like 1 part, non-pre-catalyzed lacquer. I prefer nitro since I can rework, overspray, sand back, wipe off (and clean up) with thinner, and its smell lets me know when my respirator isn't working. 1 part urethane is fine too, but far less forgiving to rework. The major drawback is I live where nitro spraying season is 6 weeks in the Spring and 6 weeks in the Fall when temps are high enough and humidity is low enough.
 
C

Cowbell Fever!

Guest
My bad, had no idea we were talking about a two part catalyzed product! I would also wear a tyvek coverall.
 

Audiowonderland

Active member
Messages
61
DuckBaloo said:
Yeah, the catalyzed poly is pretty much bomb-proof. A few coats is enough to seal because you'll never be able to get at and rework anything underneath it. Even lacquer thinner is useless against it. I, personally, don't touch a 2-part finishes (they scare me). The catalyst in Spraymax is isocyanate, which is high-VOC, yet odorless (so you don't know when you're breathing it in). And catalyzed finishes can't be washed off, they stick and cure to whatever they touch...skin, nasal passages, lungs, etc. A full-face respirator, the right cartridges, tyvek paint suit, and god vented booth would be musts for me.

I'm old school and like 1 part, non-pre-catalyzed lacquer. I prefer nitro since I can rework, overspray, sand back, wipe off (and clean up) with thinner, and its smell lets me know when my respirator isn't working. 1 part urethane is fine too, but far less forgiving to rework. The major drawback is I live where nitro spraying season is 6 weeks in the Spring and 6 weeks in the Fall when temps are high enough and humidity is low enough.

Since it is a VH homage I like the idea of it wearing in and developing that look which won't happen with the Spraymax product. Not sure I want to play with that nasty stuff either

Been testing with the Duplicolor clear and the Minwax clear lacquers... The Minwax seems to lay better. Need to compare how it hardens up and buffs out compared to the Duplicolor
 
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