Rosewood as core wood for body

[Garf]

Hi... I am looking at creating a guitar and neck combo for the imaginary money that I have (eventually I'll get one)... I originally wanted to use Mahogany because of it's warmth of tone, and wanted the body and neck to be of the same wood type. I also wanted a Wizard neck, but I asked Warmoth (via facebook message) why I couldn't have a Wizard neck with Mahogany and they said it was too thin to be stable...

Anyway, I then found on the Body Wood information page: http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Bodies/Options/BodyWoodOptions.aspx that you can use Indian Rosewood for bodies and it is also Warm (albeit very heavy). So I figured I could have the body/neck match with rosewood..

But I can't find it available for any body when I go to the body designer... I've looked at everything from VIP's, to Strat's and Tele's to Flying V's.. none of them have it available... Can anyone shed any light on this? Or offer a similar neck.body combo that is warm and darkish coloured wood...

 

[Cagey]

Some species of wood aren't normally available in chunks large enough to make acceptable bodies, so they only show up once in a while when whoever buys wood for Warmoth finds the stuff. Because of that, the option to choose those woods doesn't show up in the "builder" parts of their site. For instance, Ebony grows in unusual shapes and more like a bush than a tree, so you'll never see a body made of it, and because straight lengths are uncommon, you rarely see entire necks made of it. Fretboards only, to spread the stuff out.

But, if you don't mind the weight and you want a dark wood that sounds dead, you might consider Walnut. Very attractive, and it's available in body-sized dimensions.

You also might want to consider just having a more common wood such as Alder or Ash as the main component and a veneered top to give it the appearance you want. Costs a helluva lot less, and the body wood isn't as influential as many think. The neck wood species is more important, along with the pickups and bridge.

 

[Garf]

Thanks for the reply...

I would have actually thought the body had the most influence on sound...

Anyway, the reason I want them to match has nothing the do with the front... On the front I plan on having a black dyed flame maple laminate top... But the back being a natural gloss finish, which looks uniform from the body to the head stock... I realise that even within wood species they still might not look the same...

I chose mahogany because I wanted that bigger rounder sound that you get with it... I play mostly heavy music, and a lot of those rhythm guys play on guitars with Mahogany Body/Neck. Then when I saw the properties of Rosewood, and thought how unique it would be, it seemed like a good idea...

If you say the neck has more of an influence on the sound, which would you say has more influence between the shaft wood, and the fingerboard?

Seems the only thing stopping me from getting the Mahogany combo is lack of Wizard neck... Maybe I could compromise and simply go the Standard Thin... I like the Wizard II neck on my Ibanez, better than the modern C on my fenders.. having said that my American Deluxe tele has a great neck...

Anyway, I am sure I will change my mind 1000 times before I can actually get one...

Cheers

 

[Cagey]

I would have actually thought the body had the most influence on sound...

That's a common understanding that doesn't have much basis in reality. The neck is the thing, and it's the neck meat rather than the fretboard that has the most influence. That's why Warmoth doesn't want to fab up necks made of Mahogany or floppy woods like that. They absorb too many frequencies and sound like crap, plus they aren't structurally sound. Go play some old Melody Makers or SGs from Gibson. Between the Mahogany necks and the piss-poor neck joint, it's amazing that anybody had any fun with them. Although kudos to Frank Zappa, Angus Young and Frank Marino...

Anyway, it seems to me that what you'd want is something that reproduces the full spectrum of sound. If you don't want the high end, it's easy enough to filter it out. Why play an instrument that's limited? At some point, you may want those frequencies. If not, roll them off at the guitar, amp, or PA. No sense in building a crippled instrument.

 

[Garf]

Good points, and thanks for the detailed responses... I'll keep all that in mind... I just wish Warmoth had the visual designer for the VIP!

It's interesting though, that you describe the wood as absorbing the sound, and sounding dead... when Mahogany to me has always been described as warm and full... Current Les Paul's are still made out of Full Mahogany though... and they are a pretty popular instrument (I dislike them though, mostly because of comfort factors).

 

[Cagey]

Well, if you wanna see some nice VIPs, there's always my first one...

...which is, of course, the very best VIP ever built. But, there are pages of also-rans here if you're interested.

As for Mahogany sounding "warm and full", those are just polite words for "dull and fat", although it doesn't have to be that way. Mahogany is still a hardwood (although, technically, so is Balsa) so it can be used that way. In the case of the Les Paul, you have a short-scale neck that's about 20% buried in the body with a lotta reinforcement at the heel, and the body is very heavy so there's a lotta inertia there to accompany a neck that can't flex. Gives it a lotta sustain that you wouldn't expect from such a wood.

Woods that are softer or less stiff/brittle will flex microscopically and act to deaden the vibrations of the strings. Since the pickups are watching the movement of the strings, the less they move the less there is to send off to amp land. Tends to sound "warm" or "dead", depending on your outlook. No high end, in other words. Those frequencies get absorbed. Imagine the difference between a hard rubber vs. a steel neck. The wood differences aren't that dramatic, but they're audible.

 

[Garf]

Cheers... I have looked at that gallery a few times before...

I get what you're saying... as I said... I'll probably change my mind a few more times yet before I can order something... But yes, alder is looking good at the moment...

 

[greywolf]

+1 on the neck being the biggest influence on tone .  Finding a billet of rosewood is rare , and I look for such things every week .  Another alternative is sapele , it can be quite gorgeous and has nice tone as well .  It is heavier than mahogany , similar to walnut in density .

 

[Belch]

Try doing what I did and order by phone. Talked with some guy and aside from being really helpful, he made sure he got both body and neck woods the same basic color.

but this was back when they were selling madagascar rosewood. I think they only have indian stuff these days.

 

[Garf]

That does look nice... I bet you paid a premium for it too

 

[Garf]

Also... Cagey... Just regarding the neck wood of mahogany vs rosewood... both are similar on the tone chart on the Warmoth site... You've already stated that you think mahogany as core neck wood is "dead" or "dull" sounding... do you have the same opinion of rosewood? Given that it's evidently more of a hard wood?

 

[Cagey]

Tough to say. I only have one all-Rosewood neck, and it's not been strung up yet. I've not played any others; it's not commonly used as neck meat.

I expect it to be slightly brighter, but slightly is a relative term. Plus, Rosewood seems to be one of those woods that varies quite a bit from piece to piece. The neck I have here has very obvious differences in the pieces used to build it. The neck proper looks to be about as open-grained as Mahogany, but the fretboard is very dense. So, who knows? I'll find out sometime this summer... at least, with this one.