Rick Toone's Fretboard Flare feature

[t.coyle]

I have always had a bit of a problem with the high e falling off the fretboard when I play most guitars. I know this can be helped with a narrower spaced bridge which is my preference. But a while ago I was searching the net and I found something that would help even more(for me at least, this aint for everyone).

A luthier named Rick Toone came up with something called Fretboard Flare. Its basically a 1/8th inch flare or bump out on the treble side of the fretboard/neck centered around the 12th fret where alot of people(Including me) have a problem with the strings falling off. I dont think that its impossible for Warmoth to offer this seeing as how there is probably that much wood there before the cut the blanks down. They offer something somewhat similar in the superwide construction.

I know that It would be alot of work to retool for this and program the cnc machines, plus there is the licensing fees they would have to pay Rick Toone. But maybe they could offer necks that are unfretted but with an extra 1/8th inch of neck wood and fretboard on the treble side of the neck along the fretboard and an incomplete/rough neck shape for an upcharge. I also know this would void warmoths warranty, but that doesent bother me. Rick Toone has done some custom re-shaping of Warmoth necks profiles before and I dont think he would mind reshaping the treble side of the fretboard and fretting it for a fee.

I know I may be able to commision him to build a neck from scratch but as I understand it he is very expensive for that type of thing. Also I like Warmoth's side adjust mechanism and their reputation for stability and sound quality. Id really like to see either of the two options as a custom option, non refundable would be fine with me.

Here is the link to info about Rick Toone's Fretboard Flare:
http://www.ricktoone.com/2010/08/fretboard-flare.html

Here is the link to the thread with pics of the Warmoth neck that Rick Toone re-profiled:
http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=11741.0

And here is the link to Warmoth's Superwide just to show extra width is possible.
http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/necks/superwide_warmothpro.aspx

 

[swarfrat]

Why not just get a 1 3/4" neck and have a nut cut for 1 11/16" or 1 5/8"? It has the additional advantage of not looking dorky.

 

[nexrex]

Sound like a technique problem to me. I would suggest going to see a guitar tutor, and explaining your problem before making any drastic changing to your valuable guitar

 

[Dan025]

might i ask what the difference between a flare that would require retooling and simply moving the nut towards the bass side is? i mean it sounds kinda gimmicky. if you have this problem and are aware of it why not order without the nut and maybe bridge mounting holes or plug the bridge mounting holes and relocate the nut and hardware to the bass side just a touch. also the neck alignment in the pocket can be played with. try loosening the neck bolts and yanking the neck towards the upper horn. simple solutions are often the best. im sure any shmuck of a repair guy could setup any guitar you like this way if you explain it to them in simple words.

 

[jackthehack]

It sounds like you don't have the nut notched deep enough for the gauge of high E string you're using...

 

[t.coyle]

Thanks for the replies, I admit I do not have the best technique so that is something I should work on and that would help. I had thought about modifying a superwide to give more width on the bass side but I was looking into getting a 7/8 warmoth strat and as far as I know they do not offer superwides with that neck construction. I like the sound of a 25.5" scale instrument better but for the way I have to position the guitar for me to play comfortably the smaller body and shorter scale is necessary. I also requre a 1 11/16" nut width to be able to play certain chords towards the nut because of the size of my fingers(I have short sutbby fingers) which I belive puts the high e string closer to the edge of the fretboard.

I was thinking this feature would be nice to have because I was planning on having it a hardtail for easier setup, tuning, cost and sound. And since I wouldnt have the ability to change the pitch with a trem with the extra width on the treble side I could get away with bigger bends and more radical vibrato on the high e string without it falling off as much. I realize that this is probably not a usefull feature for 99 percent of guitar players. I just thought it would be a nice feature for those who wanted it.

 

[swarfrat]

I'll agree that this is primarily a technique issue. But I suspect a lot of people telling me this aren't on a 1 5/8 neck.

I was just pointing out that you can have the same thing with existing options, and if he's patented that, Warmoth or anyone else won't able to make you a neck with the misshapen lump even if they wanted. A one off small production guy has to make his money on the premium he can command, and that seems to be one of his signature draws.

If he licensed it to someone selling mass market at a lower price it would be giving away the store.

 

[Dan025]

Thanks for the replies, I admit I do not have the best technique so that is something I should work on and that would help. I had thought about modifying a superwide to give more width on the bass side but I was looking into getting a 7/8 warmoth strat and as far as I know they do not offer superwides with that neck construction. I like the sound of a 25.5" scale instrument better but for the way I have to position the guitar for me to play comfortably the smaller body and shorter scale is necessary. I also requre a 1 11/16" nut width to be able to play certain chords towards the nut because of the size of my fingers(I have short sutbby fingers) which I belive puts the high e string closer to the edge of the fretboard.

I was thinking this feature would be nice to have because I was planning on having it a hardtail for easier setup, tuning, cost and sound. And since I wouldnt have the ability to change the pitch with a trem with the extra width on the treble side I could get away with bigger bends and more radical vibrato on the high e string without it falling off as much. I realize that this is probably not a usefull feature for 99 percent of guitar players. I just thought it would be a nice feature for those who wanted it.

as swarfrat point out he has patents pending on some things, i dint see this listed but it might not look good for warmoth if they tried to copy it. but you can play with the geometry a bit. my suggestion is to get a 1-3/4 nut width neck and use a rasp and sandpaper to bring the nut down to 1-11/16 with the taper starting at the 9th-12th fret. then have the frets leveled with the path of the strings in mind and have a nut cut for the new nut width you will end up with. you may still have issues at 20th+ frets though but this will mimick almost exactly what toone does. if you would like to do it even better then as i suggested earlier relocate the bridge towards the bass side just a hair. maybe 20-50 thousandths. using a TOM bridge will also give you narrower spacing and thus room to play. tune-o-matic saddles can be bought without string groves and the grooves can be filed in to help fine tune it. 

 

[t.coyle]

I was thinking about a hipshot hardtail and I think that has a somewhat narrow string spacing. So I take it that the best way to go about this would be to save up my money and commission him to build a neck for me for a warmoth 7/8 strat body. Kind of a shame because I was really wanting to try warmoth but oh well I guess I will see how it works out and post it here if it ends up happening.

Thanks for the suggestions

 

[stubhead]

Why not just get a 1 3/4" neck and have a nut cut for 1 11/16" or 1 5/8"? It has the additional advantage of not looking dorky.

That's exactly what I did on my scalloped neck Warmoth. I cut the string slots for what would be a wide 1 5/8" spacing, and used all the extra real estate on the treble side. I also mounted the Schaller 475 bridge to give me more treble room. This is not even remotely just a "technique issue" - the problem arises over and over when you combine vintage Fender bridge spacing with taller frets than Leo ever envisioned. A large number of people - Fender included - just "fixed" it by using a new, narrower bridge. However, there are good musical reasons for the wider spacing, in particular it makes fingerpicking easier.

To me, this seems to still be an unresolved issue. The "quickie-fix" most generally used is a standard Fender-width neck, with a narrower bridge of 2 1/8" or even 2 1/16" spacing. Or you can use the extra-wide necks that both Warmoth and USA Custom make, or go totally custom, as in the Abe Rivera guitars used by Kevin Eubanks & Pat Martino.

The obvious major "problem" for a manufacturers is that symmetry looks nice, and a guitar with obviously more space on the high string than on the low string looks like it has a "crooked" bridge. Besides my scalloped-neck "tele-shaped" guitar, I've done the same thing to a lesser degree on all my guitars, because I personally tend to pull the high string more than I push the low string off. I don't know, but there may even be people who have issues pushing the low string off the fretboard - I very rarely play notes up past the 12th fret on the bottom string, I'm more likely to play the same note on a thinner string further towards the nut.

There's this whole cult evolved around "Leo got it right the first time", people who have never actually played a '53 Telecaster before it had the .032" frets replaced and the neck resurfaced from the 7 1/2" radius.... and you can sure fit a lot more controls on the Telecaster after you dump the blade switch that takes up half the plate. Don't even mention the brass-geared Klusons.... or the pickups that go microphonic after a few years of bar-band hard knocks. :toothy12:

 

[Cagey]

This whole thing sounds like a solution in search of a problem.

 

[Kadmium]

This whole thing sounds like a solution in search of a problem.

A lot of Rick Toone's innovations seem like that until you play them. Then they make you go "oh. Oh, right. I see." The thing about problems is that you get used to them, and stop noticing them until one day they're not there, and you realise how much of a problem it really was.

 

[NovasScootYa]

When using a vintage spaced bridge there are numerous reasons why strings slip off the board but the one generally leading the charge occurs when the fret shoulders are drooped during a file level and crown. IMO, that's one of many good reasons why frets should not be file leveled on a new Warmoth neck.  
A fret-end and board-edge roll should begin to taper off around the 12th to 22nd frets. The fret ends between the 12th to 22nd frets should only have the sharp ends rounded smooth more or less.
As noted in other posts the neck can be aligned or the high E bridge saddle moved inward, etc. For a good vintage bridge setup the nut string spacing center E to center E is 1 3/8" and the neck width at the nut is 1 11/16 inch. A 21 fret neck will give the high E slightly more edge room appearance at the last fret.
As far as I know making a board wider in the vinicity of the heel area is no different than making a board wider at the nut. A new invention patent application based on a wider board would fail although a design patent may pass if the shape is unique to the art.