*Resolved* Gotoh 510 woes

[fdesalvo]

**Update**

For those of you with similar issues, the TonePros ATVII will swap right into the Gotoh's inserts provided you buy the Tonepros metric studs.  It's a direct swap that will solve the action issues and you will have the ability to change strings without fear of scrathcing your guitar's finish, as the strings load in from the front and exit at the rear - instead of exiting out of the bottom of the bridge as it does on the Gotoh.


Here's a caveat to all you contemplating the use of the Gotoh 510 wraparound bridge.

You may remember many moons ago my excitement over the new purple tele I was assembling.  After all the pieces arrived, I assembled it only to realize the bridge couldn't be lowered enough to get the strings below 2-3/16" - and this was with the bridge bottomed out, no relief in the neck, capo on the first fret to take the nut out of the equation. 

I ended up sending the body back to warmoth, who thoroughly (and patiently) checked the neck pocket angle and everything else, which ended up in spec. They said they were able to get the strings crashing on the frets with room to spare at the bridge.  So they shipped it back.  After receiving it, I put it back together and nothing was different on my end.  With the strings at 2-3/16" off of the last fret, the bridge is touching wood and there is 0 clearance to change the strings. 

I brough the guitar to my luthier, a well respected guy in Orange County, and he told me that the neck needs to be shimmed to work with this bridge.  I'm pretty disgruntled and just bought another wrapoaround style bridge that should work since it is a lower profile and doesn't feed strings through the bottom.  I don't think I should have to shim a guitar that I have spent so much on, reading that all the parts on it are documented to work in concert together. 

This is frustrating because I know that there are guys running this same setup with no issues.  WTH!  I do appreciate Rob and the guys at W for being so helpful with trying to resolve the issue, but it still stands.    :dontknow:  Can anyone weigh in and tell me what else needs to be checked?

 

[SustainerPlayer]

Maybe something wrong with the heel of neck?  :dontknow:

 

[fdesalvo]

That's the only thing I haven't put calipers to, but right against my other neck, it's identical. 

 

[Patrick from Davis]

Does the neck pocket have an angle to it, or is it the standard pocket?  Looking at the page for the 510 on Warmoth's site, they suggest the angled pocket.  If it doesn't have the angled pocket, then shimming would seem to be the next best option.
Patrick

 

[fdesalvo]

Does the neck pocket have an angle to it, or is it the standard pocket?  Looking at the page for the 510 on Warmoth's site, they suggest the angled pocket.  If it doesn't have the angled pocket, then shimming would seem to be the next best option.
Patrick

Yes, it's anlged to the same degree as my other warmoth body.  I know there are two different angles routed by w.  Wondering if this is the more shallow of the two.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

.720 mod?

That'd drop down a tad further.

 

[fdesalvo]

.720 mod?

That'd drop down a tad further.

No, sir.  Looks like the new bridge will be the answer.  It has a lower profile and doesn't feed through the bottom..

 

[ocguy106]

.720 mod?

That'd drop down a tad further.

Actually wouldn't that drop the neck down just a tad further creating even higer action??

 

[dmraco]

Not sure the thought on his but I have usually reserved the gotoh 510 for carved top bodies.  Too much mods needed if not.  Workes perfect on my carved top lps.

I hope you get it worked out.  Nothin more frustrating when parts do not work well together.

 

[fdesalvo]

Not sure the thought on his but I have usually reserved the gotoh 510 for carved top bodies.  Too much mods needed if not.  Workes perfect on my carved top lps.

I hope you get it worked out.  Nothin more frustrating when parts do not work well together.

Thanks, bro - your guitar is sweet.  My first warmoth was an lps, but not nearly as beautiful.  They should totally be more popular.

 

[AprioriMark]

I had this exact same problem recently.  I took the guitar into Warmoth, and Rob told me that, while I ordered an angled neck pocket, I didn't order the "sharper angled" neck pocket.  ???  I don't actually believe that the neck is angled at all, since after I took the shims out (that I had to install in order to make it playable), I was able to lay a top-mount strat bridge on the surface, and it lined up. 

Rob did offer that I could "return it and have another made," but offered no apologies for the craftsmanship (there was also a finish flaw on my custom order; nothing I care about beyond the fact that I paid top dollar from what's supposed to be a top-notch shop).  I even asked if he was "comfortable with this representing Warmoth's work," and he replied again that I could return it and wait for another to be made.

This neck pocket issue seems to be one of those that just won't be fixed, much like their "Firebird knob route" issue. 

As for me, I made a proper shim, did more fretwork than I've ever had to do to a W neck, and the guitar now kicks a lot of ass.  Let me be clear, Warmoth makes some great stuff, I just won't likely be ordering custom work from them anymore.  I've also stopped suggesting them to friends and people that I assemble instruments for.  If I want W parts for something, I'll order off the showcase and see what I'm getting.  This wasn't my first bad experience with Warmoth's custom work, but it'll be my last.

-Mark

 

[Updown]

Not sure the thought on his but I have usually reserved the gotoh 510 for carved top bodies.

That's what I always thought, they were best suited for.
Even states that on there site.

Al thou I've seen them on SG's and there flat.

In the Tele body (standard) builder it won't let me select that bridge, Gotoh 510
But will, when in the Carved Top Tele builder.
Can add that bridge in the Strat builder too  :icon_scratch:

Hope you guys get all sorted out.  :icon_thumright:
http://www.warmoth.com/Ordering/Warranty.aspx

 

[Danuda]

I had this exact same problem recently.  I took the guitar into Warmoth, and Rob told me that, while I ordered an angled neck pocket, I didn't order the "sharper angled" neck pocket.  ???  I don't actually believe that the neck is angled at all, since after I took the shims out (that I had to install in order to make it playable), I was able to lay a top-mount strat bridge on the surface, and it lined up. 

Rob did offer that I could "return it and have another made," but offered no apologies for the craftsmanship (there was also a finish flaw on my custom order; nothing I care about beyond the fact that I paid top dollar from what's supposed to be a top-notch shop).  I even asked if he was "comfortable with this representing Warmoth's work," and he replied again that I could return it and wait for another to be made.

This neck pocket issue seems to be one of those that just won't be fixed, much like their "Firebird knob route" issue. 

As for me, I made a proper shim, did more fretwork than I've ever had to do to a W neck, and the guitar now kicks a lot of ass.  Let me be clear, Warmoth makes some great stuff, I just won't likely be ordering custom work from them anymore.  I've also stopped suggesting them to friends and people that I assemble instruments for.  If I want W parts for something, I'll order off the showcase and see what I'm getting.  This wasn't my first bad experience with Warmoth's custom work, but it'll be my last.

-Mark

I am confused as to why you won't recommend them.  They offered to redo the work (I assume for free) that you were not happy with.  No one is perfect, mistakes can be made.  If there was a finish flaw they didn't catch and the neck angle was not as sharp as you like and they offered to make you another body what more do you want?  It sounds like you are upset because the customer service representative didn't sound sorry enough.  Maybe I am reading your post wrong.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

It would seem to me that if you are going to have posts installed, for a TOM or a 510 or whatever, then the 3 degree angle should be automatic.  The lesser angle is applied to a Floyd route.  I would assume that it would be part of the programming.  Of course I have no idea what is involved with doing this in the real world.  Adding a shim is not the end of the world.  It does frustrate you and annoy you, but at some point, it is just a shim.  If it fixes it, then get back to obsessing about the next thing.  That is what I try to do.  I recommend Warmoth to most all of my buddies, but with a warning.  Are you sure you know what you want?  The overwhelming answer is, no.  They don't know what they want.  This always makes things more difficult.

Back to the topic, hopefully you can get it fixed, I hate to hear about problems like this.
Patrick

 

[Kostas]

...while I ordered an angled neck pocket, I didn't order the "sharper angled" neck pocket...

Is that info in their site? Years ago when I ordered a showcase LP model I asked and they told me it was already routed with an angled neck pocket. First time I hear about the sharper angled neck pocket!

 

[fdesalvo]

I'll still order and recommend, but with the caveat that not all pieces will play nice together.  I sent them my neck and body and they said they were able to get the strings low enough to crash on the frets.  I couldn't.  Here's as low as I was able to get my action - with the strings capo'd on the first fret, the action was only 1/16" lower than what you see.  This is with an arrow-straight neck with no relief, as well.

This is the only negative experience I'd ever had and while I'm glad they went above and beyond, the issue is till persistent and now I'm forced to spend even more to make things right - that's aside from the extra 2 months this issue has pushed back completion of this project - after they sent the body back, I opened the box to find the upper edge had a huge flat spot, as if it had been dropped, though the package was 100% perfect.  I was told that the damage occurred in transit..

They should either test all hardware with all body options or post a warning that things may not work out.  I'm not unreasonable and understand that they don't claim to make kits, but this is something that has occurred before and I'd have sincerely appreciated the warning - especially since I've spent over $4K with them since 2001.

I had this exact same problem recently.  I took the guitar into Warmoth, and Rob told me that, while I ordered an angled neck pocket, I didn't order the "sharper angled" neck pocket.  ???  I don't actually believe that the neck is angled at all, since after I took the shims out (that I had to install in order to make it playable), I was able to lay a top-mount strat bridge on the surface, and it lined up. 

Rob did offer that I could "return it and have another made," but offered no apologies for the craftsmanship (there was also a finish flaw on my custom order; nothing I care about beyond the fact that I paid top dollar from what's supposed to be a top-notch shop).  I even asked if he was "comfortable with this representing Warmoth's work," and he replied again that I could return it and wait for another to be made.

This neck pocket issue seems to be one of those that just won't be fixed, much like their "Firebird knob route" issue. 

As for me, I made a proper shim, did more fretwork than I've ever had to do to a W neck, and the guitar now kicks a lot of ass.  Let me be clear, Warmoth makes some great stuff, I just won't likely be ordering custom work from them anymore.  I've also stopped suggesting them to friends and people that I assemble instruments for.  If I want W parts for something, I'll order off the showcase and see what I'm getting.  This wasn't my first bad experience with Warmoth's custom work, but it'll be my last.

-Mark

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

.720 mod?

That'd drop down a tad further.

Actually wouldn't that drop the neck down just a tad further creating even higer action??

Duhh, sorry, you're totally correct!

 

[AprioriMark]

I had this exact same problem recently.  I took the guitar into Warmoth, and Rob told me that, while I ordered an angled neck pocket, I didn't order the "sharper angled" neck pocket.  ???  I don't actually believe that the neck is angled at all, since after I took the shims out (that I had to install in order to make it playable), I was able to lay a top-mount strat bridge on the surface, and it lined up. 

Rob did offer that I could "return it and have another made," but offered no apologies for the craftsmanship (there was also a finish flaw on my custom order; nothing I care about beyond the fact that I paid top dollar from what's supposed to be a top-notch shop).  I even asked if he was "comfortable with this representing Warmoth's work," and he replied again that I could return it and wait for another to be made.

This neck pocket issue seems to be one of those that just won't be fixed, much like their "Firebird knob route" issue. 

As for me, I made a proper shim, did more fretwork than I've ever had to do to a W neck, and the guitar now kicks a lot of ass.  Let me be clear, Warmoth makes some great stuff, I just won't likely be ordering custom work from them anymore.  I've also stopped suggesting them to friends and people that I assemble instruments for.  If I want W parts for something, I'll order off the showcase and see what I'm getting.  This wasn't my first bad experience with Warmoth's custom work, but it'll be my last.

-Mark

I am confused as to why you won't recommend them.  They offered to redo the work (I assume for free) that you were not happy with.  No one is perfect, mistakes can be made.  If there was a finish flaw they didn't catch and the neck angle was not as sharp as you like and they offered to make you another body what more do you want?  It sounds like you are upset because the customer service representative didn't sound sorry enough.  Maybe I am reading your post wrong.

You're somewhat correct.  I should preface this by saying that I'm not upset; I just have expectations of honesty and accountability in customer service.  You didn't catch me making a big stink about it when all of this happened.  You're seeing me responding to a thread where another user had the same issue that I did.

At no point did anyone at Warmoth say "this was not what you ordered" or even "let us fix that for you."  What was said, repeatedly, was that if I was unhappy with the body, that there was a return policy.  They also tried to BS me about a "different neck angle," which, even if it's offered, certainly isn't clear.  As a customer, I did everything I could.  I made notes on the order form, I emailed them about which bridge I was using and that it needed to be angled, and I spoke with Spyke about it multiple times.  I even sent the bridge to them to install the studs to make sure it would line up properly (since I can easily install studs, but my bridge wasn't on their list of routes). 

I understand that I could have waited another 10 weeks to have another body made, and maybe it would have been correct.  For me, it was no big deal to shim the neck, and the finish flaw doesn't ruin the guitar for me.  I'm 100% happy with how the instrument turned out.  I'm just pointing out two things:

1)  Warmoth's neck angle (if it was angled) is not sufficient for the 510 bridge (or mine, which was the same spacing as the 510)
2)  Their service in handling issues with custom orders is not up to my personal standards, and I'm not comfortable recommending them to people any longer.  This is two major issues for me with custom body orders.  First time, shame on you, etc.

-Mark

 

[AprioriMark]

...while I ordered an angled neck pocket, I didn't order the "sharper angled" neck pocket...

Is that info in their site? Years ago when I ordered a showcase LP model I asked and they told me it was already routed with an angled neck pocket. First time I hear about the sharper angled neck pocket!

That's what I'm getting at.  It isn't information that's available, and when I did everything in my power to ensure that I got what I ordered, I feel that it's on Warmoth to better communicate this potential issue.  I don't mind putting a shim in my guitar, but I'm not comfortable recommending Warmoth for parts to people who expect to get what they order.

-Mark

 

[AprioriMark]

It would seem to me that if you are going to have posts installed, for a TOM or a 510 or whatever, then the 3 degree angle should be automatic.  The lesser angle is applied to a Floyd route.  I would assume that it would be part of the programming.  Of course I have no idea what is involved with doing this in the real world. Adding a shim is not the end of the world.  It does frustrate you and annoy you, but at some point, it is just a shim.  If it fixes it, then get back to obsessing about the next thing.  That is what I try to do.  I recommend Warmoth to most all of my buddies, but with a warning.  Are you sure you know what you want?  The overwhelming answer is, no.  They don't know what they want.  This always makes things more difficult.

Back to the topic, hopefully you can get it fixed, I hate to hear about problems like this.
Patrick

I agree completely, and this is why I didn't make a big deal about it.  I've since had people order parts from the Showcase that I've used to assemble guitars for them.  I still think that Warmoth makes some great parts, but I don't trust them to custom order anything that's going to reflect badly on me.  I'm also a bit disappointed with the lack of accountability that I experienced, but that doesn't mean I won't order Showcase parts from them.  I just won't trust them to stand up for their products, which puts them in another category  of supplier for me.

-Mark