Question about Rio Grande TX/BBQ Set

[MN_JDTele]

I sent JacktheHack a message, but thought I should maybe ask this here also.

I am working on putting my Tele back together, but have a question about the color coding of the wires on these pickups.  I want to do something similar to this:

But what colors are North Start, North Finish, South Start, And South Finish?  I've been searching around trying to figure it all out, but I am at a loss    Any help would be appreciated!  I believe the colors on the Rio Grande are Red Black Green and White

 

[dbw]

http://www.riograndepickups.com/images/wiring/4con%20H%20H%20true%20splitting%20vv%20tt%203wy%206-13-06%20pdf.pdf

From the RG diagram it appears north start is red, south start is white, and green and black are north finish and south finish (though not necessarily in that order).  If you want to know which is which,  use a multimeter... red -> south finish will be open, red -> north finish will have a few K resistance.

 

[jackthehack]

Nope...  North start = black; North finish/south finish = red & white; south start = green, same as on typical SD set.

 

[MN_JDTele]

I had come up with the same colors as dbw.  But I wasn't sure that was right.  Guess now I know!  LOL.  How could you tell that Jack?

 

[MN_JDTele]

One more question...what exactly does North Start, North Finish, South Start, And South Finish mean?

 

[chuck7]

Nope...  North start = black; North finish/south finish = red & white; south start = green, same as on typical SD set.

I thought SDs were North start: Black, North end: white, South start: red, South end: green?

One more question...what exactly does North Start, North Finish, South Start, And South Finish mean?

The North South business is just referencing what is positive and negative in normal operation/wiring.  Another way of saying it would be Coil 1+, Coil 1-, Coil 2+, Coil 2-. 

I'm guessing they call it start and finish because technically the coil can be ran in reverse so the + becomes - and the - becomes +, in cases such as out of phase wiring.  I'm no electronics expert though, so I could be completely full of poo

 

[MN_JDTele]

:tard:

 

[blue313]

Think of a humbucker as 2 single coil pickups put right next to each other.  Call the top one North and the bottom one South.  Each single coil has a single long length of wire wrapped around it with a beginning (start) and an end (finish). 

A classic humbucker has the two "Finishes" connected....so the bottom one's current flows in the opposite direction as the top one.  This helps to eliminate hum between the coils.  Not to say this is the only way to wire it, just the standard way.

 

[MN_JDTele]

I tried emailing Rio Grande and have not heard back.  Is chuck7 right on the wiring, or is jack right?  Would like to try and only wire the guitar 1 time  LOL  :help:

 

[chuck7]

I was only talking about Seymour Duncan pickups, in response to Jacks post saying that the RGs are the same as SDs.  I have no knowledge of RG pickups. 

 

[dbw]

I had come up with the same colors as dbw.  But I wasn't sure that was right.  Guess now I know!  LOL.  How could you tell that Jack?

There's no practical difference between the codes I came up with and the codes Jack came up with; if you wire them with either the end result will be the same.  It makes sense that they'd be the same as SD's.

 

[jackthehack]

I had come up with the same colors as dbw.  But I wasn't sure that was right.  Guess now I know!  LOL.  How could you tell that Jack?

For SD pickups, using the wiring diagrams from their website; the RG 4 conductor PUs appeared to have the same schema as the white/red leads come already twisted together, so I just assumed that was right, and apparently it is.

Notre about RG; don't know about their email response time, but if you simply call their number in Houston they're real helpful.

 

[MN_JDTele]

Thanks for everyone's help.  I will hope to start wiring them up tonight.  Might give them a call later and see what they have to say also.  :guitaristgif:

 

[DiMitriR33]

One more question...what exactly does North Start, North Finish, South Start, And South Finish mean?

there is no +/- in a passive guitar!

north/south is the side of the magnet the coil is on. the south side is typically the side with the adjustable pole pieces. but it can be reversed to correct an out of phase pickup combo. no garentees that rio uses that arrangement.

start/finish is how it's wound. start is the lead that was connected to the bobbin first, it will be the bottom coil and all other coils are wrapped over it.

both coils are wrapped in the same direction on most pickups, they must be wired in opposite directions to be in-phase. this is because they are on opposite magnetic poles.

most of this is irrelevant. they might follow the seymour duncan format they might not. as long as both pickups are from the same manufacturer and you know that white gets soldered to red(or black to green it doesn't matter), and you solder the same color to ground on both pickups you can label them how you chose.

i'll also add that i don't recommend that diagram unless you have covered pickups, in the 2 and 4 positions it shorts one coil of one pickup to hot, this is typically done to ground and maybe for a reason. shorting to hot allows a simple way to select which coil is on. the problem is that the coil is unsheilded and has an enormous amount of surface area to pickup interference. i haven't tried it personally because i'm afraid of the possible results. i have however used a speaker cable for my guitar by accident and it proved very noisy. that is only 20 feet of cable unshielded. a guitar pickup has about a 1/3 - 1/2 mile of wire per coil.

 

[MN_JDTele]

Here is what they said at RioGrande

Texas Barbeque Set

Red and white solder together and to switch (if splitting)

Green is ground and black is hot

Dave/Rio

Is it possible to wire the pickups to have one coil on each active safely?  Or am I better off wiring something like the Seymour Duncan site shows

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2hum_1vol_1tone_super5way

 

[DiMitriR33]

well yes you could have one coil active on each pup, you could probably even get the same combos as that schematic but the better way would be complicated with many jumpers and a mess to solder.

if you have metal covers on your pickups the diagram you have is fine.

that seymour duncan diagram would be fine too.

maybe i'm being too cautious here. it seems the mega switch which has a few versions and is a lot easier to wire than a super switch, is setup to do selectable coil tapping in the same way as the first diagram.

but if you're paranoid about hum i'd go with the seymour duncan diagram.
and if you ask me really nicely i might take the time to figure how to do the inside/outside thing without making the whole pickup hot.