Question about Ash and when to use a grain filler

[Miseria]

I want to do a faded denim looking stain for my next build. Goal is to have a very weathered looking satin finish.

I want to do a blue stain with white/silver contrast for the grain. I saw a video on the ole youtube that did something similar on a cabinet. In the video their steps were
1. Stain the wood (jet black in this example, I would use dark blue)
2. Seal the wood
3. Apply a white gel stain and quickly wipe off.

Would this process work? I've seen many threads that say the first (and most important) step is a few rounds of grain filling and sanding.

Question: Does filling the grain mean you cannot stain it with a contrasting color?

 

[stratamania]

Normally you would fill the grain of ash first.

If you are going for something other than a gloss or smooth finish then you may take a different approach.

Question: Does filling the grain mean you cannot stain it with a contrasting color?

It might not achieve the results you are planning.

There are many types of grain filler, stains, dyes, processes, etc.

There are two types of approaches to doing something off the beaten path, research a process and get to it or test it on some scrap first.

Finally, if you want something really weathered-looking you might be less bothered about filling with grain filler. Not all ash finishes "have" to be or are.

 

[Miseria]

Normally you would fill the grain of ash first.

If you are going for something other than a gloss or smooth finish then you may take a different approach.

Question: Does filling the grain mean you cannot stain it with a contrasting color?

It might not achieve the results you are planning.

There are many types of grain filler, stains, dyes, processes, etc.

There are two types of approaches to doing something off the beaten path, research a process and get to it or test it on some scrap first.

Finally, if you want something really weathered-looking you might be less bothered about filling with grain filler. Not all ash finishes "have" to be or are.

The finish feel I'm going for is satin sheen but texture from the grain is totally ok. Kind of like the Schecter Apocalypse (rust gray) if you are familiar with it. It has a very nice matte finish but the grain texture is still there.

Color wise I want to do a blue and try to highlight the grain in white.

Does Warmoth ever sell scrap pieces of Ash to test on? Or would a kitchen cabinet manufacturer be a good resource? I've never tried hunting down a piece of Ash.

 

[stratamania]

I looked up the Apocalypse, it doesn't look like it is relying on grain filler really.

Without grain filler, any finish will still be grainy texturally and finish will tend to soak into the grain. But for what you are trying to achieve it may be the way to go.

Give Warmoth a call to see if they have any offcuts. I don't know if they will accommodate but it is worth an ask. In terms of lumber stores and so forth in the US I have no experience of them as I do not live there but would expect Ash to be fairly available.

You might also want to check out Wudtone products as they may have something to use. http://www.wudtone.com

 

[ragamuffin]

If you have a woodworking supply store somewhere nearby they likely sell ash

 

[swarfrat]

When to use grain filler on ash? I think it's customary to apply it after sanding three or four primer coats back to bare wood. Along with much cursing.

 

[stratamania]

When to use grain filler on ash? I think it's customary to apply it after sanding three or four primer coats back to bare wood. Along with much cursing.

Just in case someone does not notice the tongue in cheek nature of the above. Whatever finish you are doing, inform yourself of the process first and be prepared to put in the time or join Mr Swarfrat in the cursing and frustration league.

 

[Miseria]

When to use grain filler on ash? I think it's customary to apply it after sanding three or four primer coats back to bare wood. Along with much cursing.

Just in case someone does not notice the tongue in cheek nature of the above. Whatever finish you are doing, inform yourself of the process first and be prepared to put in the time or join Mr Swarfrat in the cursing and frustration league.

Good advice for sure! I plan on finding some scrap wood first no matter what. I'm assuming that ash and swamp ash are relatively similar when it comes to finish.

 

[Cagey]

The type of finish you're trying to achieve has a name I can't  remember, but if you wanna find out ways to do it on guitars, etc. try doing a search on "Doghair finishes" to get some real-life experience stories. Seems to me our resident finishing expert (Tonar) did one a year or two ago and documented it for us, and he's a good teacher.

 

[Miseria]

The type of finish you're trying to achieve has a name I can't  remember, but if you wanna find out ways to do it on guitars, etc. try doing a search on "Doghair finishes" to get some real-life experience stories. Seems to me our resident finishing expert (Tonar) did one a year or two ago and documented it for us, and he's a good teacher.

Took your advice and did some searching on Doghair and finally found what I was looking for - its called a ceruse finish. Now to search videos and buy some test wood.

 

[Mr. Neutron]

I think I've done something kinda similar to what you're attempting. Can maybe provide pics tomorrow. I used light blue enamel paint all over a roasted swamp ash body & scuffed that to the point where the paint got sorta "thin/opaque-ish". Mixed up some craft store water-base paints with white & silver colors, then put that in some thinned white Timbermate, and used that for the first grain fill. Then filled the remaining voids & low spots with a clear water based grain filler ("Aqua Coat" I think; I forget what it's called.......  :icon_scratch. It came out nice,  up to that point.

But for a top coat, I used an aerosol oil-based poly from Minwax ( Silver can, gloss, 'cause that's how I roll......). Ordinarily not a totally bad call, but it really yellowed the light blue and especially the silver/white grain fill. I think maybe water-base poly would have preserved the color I wanted to keep, and probably would be more scratch resistant. Will try to get a pic tomorrow.

 

[Mr. Neutron]

Here's a pic of what I tried to describe above. This poor Hybrid got used for multiple finishing experiments, most of which failed.  :sad1:

Notice the white paint in the pickup and control routes (from an earlier failed "experiment"  :sad: ). It yellowed a lot, after somewhere around 3-4 months or so, and just seems to have gotten worse till around the 8 month point. Ditto for my white &  silver grain fill, but that may not show as dramatically as the white paint in the routes.

This was an effort to get a faded denim/ceruse sorta effect.