pots for a new build

[RoccoRiggs]

Hi Folks;

Just ordered a chambered strat body from our friends here at Warmoth- it's a  s-s-h basswood body, maple cap-pairing it with a birds eye maple & fretboard 21 fret Warhead neck,6150's, black tusq, modern construction. Gonna do 1 vol, 1 tone. Looking for the VH bucker tone as well as Knoplfer stratty cleans...ps, it's a recessed tune-o-matic- ordered the Gotoh for it- psyched..

I have the pickups already- pulling them out of a Charvel USA HT (don't really dig the neck shape, too flat on the back side-and I always liked to rest my palm on a Gibson style bridge vs the 6 saddle fender style on the Charvel) The Charvel has a one volume, 500k, no tone pot. Sounds great, but I cant get a jazz tone without a tone pot.

Pickups are: (neck) DiMarzio Injector (middle) is a custom duncan rw/rp alnico ii, and the bucker is a EVH frankenstein relic I bought years ago- my tech went into that pickup on a previous build and turned it into a 4 wire- so it's now splittable- i didn't ask him to do that, but he did..  the results have been favorable though- he did hurt the value of the signed relic pickup, but, I'll never sell it as it gives up the goods in spades..

So, how would you guys approach the wiring? Right now its a superswitch- pos 1 is neck, pos 2 is typical strat, pos 3 is neck + bucker- 4 is typical strat, split bucker, and 5 is full bucker.. I like the ability to split the bucker in position 4, but on the new build I'd like to tap it in full bucker mode to tame the gain and output at times when i don't want the full bucker sound...tone pot with a push pull?

Would u go 500k pots? or 500 and a 250 for the tone? I've heard of this but have no experience.
The VH pickup sounds best with no load..

How about cap values?

Looks like I have a lot of time to think about this as the ship time is long from Warmoth now under the circumstances..

Any thought would be grateful!

Stay Healthy!

 

[Kostas]

I like splitted HB's, it's not about making them sound like single coils although some come close, it's about having more usable and sometimes unique tones.

In my HSS strat I went with 250k, I tried it and the HB has all the highs I need. However I went all 500k in my Thinline (Tele-P90) and everytime I turned to the bridge pickup I had to adjust both the pickup selector and the tone knob. There are many wiring diagrams online that show how (with a resistor) the HB's see 500k and the single coils see 250k, I would choose one and do it like that. Having a super bright pickup is no fun.

Whatever you do, choose quality (measured) pots. I always do that, if the pot in my strat was 170k I imagine I wouldn't like a muddy pickup.

 

[Cactus Jack]

I agree with Kostas regarding the use of a resistor. It's a very effective, and simple, addition the wiring scheme. Ohms law would say to use a 500k resistor, but I generally see folks use between 330-470k. Lindy Fralin has some good explanations on his website. 

 

[RoccoRiggs]

All new info for me to research and ponder. Thanks for the tips and leads on finding more info..

 

[JohnnyHardtail]

How do you like the Anico 2 strat pickup in the middle position?

If it was my project, I'd think about swapping the middle pickup for a DP419 Area 67. 
It would give more output,  eliminate the hum, and is probably better suited for 500k control pots.

 

[RoccoRiggs]

The Alnico ii is  a Custom Shop Duncan I got from Music Zoo, the box just reads ( CS Strat, middle. Alnico ii 7.09 k, wired by MJ)  RWRP- It quacks well, yet I don't have it set as on in Position 3, its only on in 2 and 4.. so on it's own I can't say..

Stock pickups replaced from the Charvel were 2 Dimarzio HS-2's and a super distortion.. sounded very generic- no soul.. not touch sensitive..

I'm riding a 500k right now on the Charvel, and the only thing missing is a tone control for the neck pickup- this present axe is a one volume only set up.. I went with the Injector as it is also Alnico ii.. Dimarzio also said it would work well with the 500k..they were right.. Very happy with this guitar sound, but the neck shape isn't my fave, hence the Warmoth build..

I also had the Duncan Custom Shop build me a Frankie pickup, degaussed Alnico ii. 4 conductor.. That pickup is in a Fender CS Showmaster.. spilts well.. doesn't have all the vibe of the relic'd signature pickup, but its close.. the notes squish, bloom, great harmonics.. kinda like a 59 with more everything, but not over the top like  Custom Custom.. I like their stuff.

 

[JohnnyHardtail]

The 7.1k alnico 2 pickup is probably warm enough to use with 500k controls for both volume and tone.  So you may have both options for position 3, depending if you want to try the single coil option.  Duncan RW/RP pickups are normally North magnetic polarity unless it was custom ordered for use in a set.  North magnetic polarity single coil will be hum-cancelling with the screw coil of most humbuckers in position 2.  You can test which coil is active in position 2 by tapping on the poles of the humbucker with screwdriver.

Please take photos of the wiring if you are going to disassemble it.  Otherwise it will be harder to figure out what wiring connections your tech used for the mod.    If you only have 3 wires for the Frankie humbucker, then parallel connection of the humbucker is out of the question.  4 wires are needed for parallel wiring if you are interested in that.

 

[jay4321]

I’ve built like 3 of these recessed TOM start/charvel things and still can’t totally settle on what pickups or wiring I like best

A JB-Jazz in a poplar one is a very, very solid guitar for me and I have that wire with 250k tone/volume and three way switch

 

[Herschel]

Since you’ll have a tone knob I’d go 500k pots and .022 cap for the humbucker. My favorite wiring is master Volume, Master Tone, Blender knob and if I want a coil split use a push/pull pot.

 

[RoccoRiggs]

...I'm in contact with Bartolini right now, they are seemingly designing a s-s-h set up for me.. will post with updates.. curious..

 

[Ace Flibble]

If you're the sort of person who likes to actually use the tone knob (bizarre!) then as the safest starting point I'd stick with just regular ol' 500k pots for both controls (linear or log is entirely your choice) and a medium tone resistor of something like 0.033µF. Using a 250k pot is no different to using a 500k linear pot turned down to 5, or about 7 on a log pot. In other words, both in volume and tone, a 500k pot can already do everything a 250k pot does but a 250k pot can never replicate a 500k pot. Whenever you're in doubt, 500k pots are the safest bet.

However, bear in mind that adding a tone control, even if you use a 500k pot and leave it on '10', is still going to round-off the tone of the pickups and reduce output slightly compared to what they're giving you now with just the single volume control. If you want the option of keeping the existing tone but also want to add a tone control then using 1m pots would be the way to go. A 1m volume and 1m tone together is similar to using a single 500k, though with the two 1ms you'll get just a hair less treble/more bass than you do with the current single 500k. So a 1m volume and 1m tone with a 0.033µF cap would give you 99.9% the same tone you currently have when you leave everything on '10', but with the flexibility of a tone control at a value that would be an even compromise between the humbucker and single coils. If I were attempting a build like this myself that is what I'd start off with; you can always open the guitar up and rewire it if it's not quite right, after all, it's not like pots are a particularly expensive part to switch out. The only caveat is 1m pots can be hard to find in particular tapers by particular companies. Some only make 1m pots linear, others only make them with a log taper, others again only make them with a reverse-log taper. So you might have to hunt around a bit to get exactly the quality of pot in the taper you want.

Or, what I'd be tempted to do rather than put in a 1m pot and prepare to swap it out, is to simply add additional resistors to a 1m pot to bring it down to something like 750k. (You can buy 650-800k pots, technically, but they've become extremely rare and especially in audio taper they get quickly bought up by Jaguar and Jazzmaster fans, driving up the prices.) Two 750k pots at 10 won't sound much different to the current single 500k pot, but will give you a smoother control than 1m pots do.

 

[RoccoRiggs]

Update: Warmoth shipped quicker than predicted, thank you guitar makers and workers!!!!
Regarding my S-S-Hum build..

Pots are (2) 500k (1V 1T) with a .033 cap. One is Push Pull for the neck and bridge coil taps..
Regular 5 Way switch (not interested in non traditional pickup selection on this build) hence no SuperSwitch

Pickups are... bridge..1 Duncan EVH Frankie ReliC  (signed my Mr. Ed)  :headbang: I had it modded to be splittable (4) wire .

Middle Position:  a Duncan Red Devil ..why, u ask? see below..

L'il Pearly gates for the neck.. keeping with the celebrity theme...gotta love Billy G...

Regarding the (2) 500k pots, original thought was to have only one push pull for coil tapping the bridge and neck.

but with the Red Devil going in the middle (this is a single coil sized humbucker, similar to  Li'l 59 or JB junior) would a push pull pot to split this pickup be a good idea for more funky sounds?

I've been reading about running the duncan split coil pickup in Parallel... thoughts? I don't know the dif between parallel and splitting the coil.. my understanding is splitting turns off one coil completely...if the wrong coil is split, will I get hum somewhere in position 2 or 4?

Want Zero hum.. not concerned about traditional strat tone vs anything, just single coil clean spank on positions 2 and 4..
Thanks Y'all

 

[stratamania]

You actually have with those pickups an HHH setup just that two are single coil sized. I posted in a thread the other day for someone looking to do a similar setup. I have posted the link below to it.

It's also worth noting that the middle pickup gets wired differently than it normally would be so that when the coils are split you will get noise cancelling in positions 2 and 4. As you have one volume and one tone the diagram would need to be modified a little but if you look on Seymour Duncans site you may be able to find one closer to what you need.

https://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=32178.msg451279#msg451279

 

[Ace Flibble]

Yeah you've got HHH there, and neither the Pearly Gates or Red Devil sound much like a Strat/Tele single coil when split (or parallel). They both have more of a P-90 tone; technically a single coil sound, but not what you're expecting for "funky" Strat sounds.

To get the usual 2 & 4 position tones, or at least something close to them, you need one of the pickups to have its magnet(s) coming right up under the strings. This means either a regular Strat configuration of six individual rod magnets, or Firebird-style configurations of bar magnets like the SD Hot Stack, where the bar magnet is placed in the middle of the coil and acts as a kind of large 'blade' pole, rather than being on the bottom of the pickup like in a minibucker or other Strat-size HB. Having the magnet(s) coming right up under the strings is what gives the pickups that quick attack that is the signature of the Strat and Tele tone, especially the 2 & 4 Strat positions. With minibuckers or Strat-sized buckers with the bar magnet on the bottom of the pickup like a regular humbucker, splitting it just gives you effectively a mini-P-90.

It might be you split the middle pickup and find you like the 2 & 4 positions anyway – that's fine. But just know that it's going to be its own sound, not a replica of a common Strat tone.


To get more regular 2 & 4 tones but still be hum-cancelling and still have a bit more power and smoothness on the middle position itself than a normal Strat pickup has, I do thoroughly recommend the SD Hot Stack. It sounds like a Strat pickup running through a mid booster, tonally an exact halfway point between a regular single coil and a mild humbucker but with output more like the Pearly Gates. (Don't pay any attention to the specification; the way the Hot Stack is wired it has nowhere near the output that the 20DCR would suggest. I recommend always using the bridge model since the neck/middle version is a lot brighter and just sounds like any other Strat pickup.)
You could also check out the SD Vintage Rails which is specifically designed for series/parallel switching. In parallel it sounds like a very slightly warm Strat and will help with those 2 & 4 tones, while in series it sounds like a very slightly brighter humbucker.

If you do stick with the Pearly Gates and Red Devil then know that for those kinds of pickups, split and parallel sound basically the same only parallel of course has no hum, so don't worry about splitting and just go with a series/parallel switch. In some other pickups you can get quite a difference between split and parallel tones, and splitting to one coil or the other, but not in Strat-sized buckers or minibuckers. Everything is simply too close together for it to make much difference either way. Split or parallel will both sound very different to series, but not to each other.

On that note, OP, in your last post there you also mentioned tapping, but that is something very different and not something any of those pickups are made for. Tapping is when a coil is overwound, with a section of the coil wired to a switch. You can then switch out that section of the coil, making the pickup effectively wound normally. Some tappable pickups can even be made so you can switch from the full wind, to a normal wind, to the small optional section, giving you an extremely underwound sound as well.
Tapping is usually only done with actual single coils (Teles and P-90s especially) and not any kind of dual-coil design, because in any sort of pickup with two or more coils it's more effective to just cut out a coil (splitting) than to 'tap' it. If you have a pickup that can be tapped you'll know it, as they have an additional wire (i.e. 3 if the pickup would otherwise have 2 wires, or 5 if it would normally have 4) for the tap and nearly all tappable pickups these days need to be custom-ordered; extremely few are made that way as standard these days.
So, "tapping" is not interchangeable with splitting. What you have is pickup splitting, not tapping.

 

[RoccoRiggs]

So best scenario for the present pickups would be to wire the red devil in parallel, not split..

It's at the tech's now.. dropped it last night before I had a chance to read your generous response..

I left it as he's gonna wire it such that pos. 2 and 4 auto split the middle pickup..is it possible to wire in a way to achieve auto parallel in 2 and 4 ? Would you suggest this?

Maybe i don't split or run it parallel it at all and let the devil breath fire, and bag the whole clean funk idea..?

Remember, i have only 1 push pull on the tone and one reg volume pot at this point.. was going to split the neck and bridge pickups..

 

[RoccoRiggs]

my new thought.. don't split the neck or bridge pickups, use the push pull as a series/parallel for the middle and see what it sounds like..(?)

Thank u for your expertise, knowledge and patience, great resource..

 

[Ace Flibble]

I've re-written this a few times now 'cause I keep falling into the trap of just writing out what I would do for my own guitars—I have a lot of HHH guitars, but they all have many more switches than this—and I realise that's not entirely helpful or relevant. Bear with me.

Auto-split isn't a bad idea by any means, since at least that's straight-forward. If that's the instructions you left with your tech then I think it's worth them carrying on with it and seeing how that sounds. Auto-splitting the middle pickup and having the neck and bridge on a push-pull parallel switch probably is going to be the simplest way to get the most versatility out of the guitar and will be easy for you to operate while playing, plus it's an easy thing for your tech to wire up and ensure is hum-cancelling in 2 & 4. Yup, it's not going to sound exactly like a Strat but like I said before, it'll be its own thing and maybe you'll like that sound anyway. It's not like it can't ever be opened up and re-wired if you don't like it.

'Auto-parallel' can't be done with a standard 5-way switch. You can do it with a 'super' 5-way but it's a huge headache to do and an additional (albeit minor in the grand scheme of things) expense to get that switch. Even just getting all the wire to squash down into the cavity is a pain. Some Fender American Deluxe HSS Stratocasters (around 2007 IIRC, I had one for a little while but I forget precisely when) had auto-parallel using an S-1 and a super-5-way and you never wanted to try to open one of those things up and re-wire them or even just swap pickups, it just wasn't worth the effort. So, it can be done but I'd try every other option first before going for what is the most complicated one.

You can, with a regular 5-way, use a push-pull to switch all three pickups at once from HHH to SSS split (not parallel). See this Seymour Duncan diagram. Once again, it never sounds wholly like a regular Strat and you'll get hum of course, but it's the second-easiest configuration behind auto-splitting and it does mean you get all 10 HHH and SSS tones (or approximations, at least). You won't win on authentic tones but you'll win on versatility. I do use this one myself with full-sized humbuckers and firebird pickups a lot.

So I think the best option here is going to be to see how the auto-split middle with parallel switch for the bridge and neck sounds, just on the basis of it being super simple. If that doesn't do it for you then try the basic HHH/SSS split switching. Then, if even that isn't sounding how you want, at least you'll by then have a good grasp on what all the different series, parallel and split options sound like so you can narrow down exactly which combinations you want to have, and that's where the super-5-way comes in. But I would be surprised if the auto-split middle + series/parallel neck & bridge wiring doesn't do what you want, as long as you keep your expectations realistic about how much of a 'funky' Strat sound you're likely to actually get.

 

[stratamania]

Ace the link in your post is broken.

As it turns out it is the same diagram that I pointed the OP towards earlier in the thread that I had posted. But here it is again.