Please advice how to bleach this ash body

[kwm488]

Hi
I come from hong kong, I have some problem with my warmoth ash strat even I do some research here, google and rereanch.

My first question is that have anyone try to bleach ash body which is dyed? I ask stewmac, answer is impossible because ash is too much porous.
I always use chlorine bleach for my maple guitar project, it do excellent job. However it is not work for my only one ash body. So I try more bleach product like chlorine powder, oxalic acid and 50% hydrogen peroxide. All not work. I think the only ways is 2 part wood bleach. However, I can't find it here. But I can find sodium hydroxide and hydrogen peroxide which are same with 2 part bleach .  Can anyone teach me how to use? I don't know how many % of sodium hydroxide and hydrogen peroxide , it is very danger if using it without more information.

My second question is grain filler. My ash project is fine, just have grain filler problem. I used stewmac waterbase grain filler, it is rubbish , please don't use it. It must shrink after spray nitro even you sand it smooth. This is the one of the reason I stripped this ash body and try to use stewmac timbermate waterbase grain filler. Why I don't try oil base? I hope to try it, but I can't find it here. Do anyone try timbermate grain filler ? Can share some experience?

Last, I will do fender 2 tone burst too. I have question of the yellow color. It should yellow pigment or yellow stain if I want to follow fender 1954 strat? Anyway, I will spray sealer first, I don't dye ash body forever. And I will spray toner. I don't think fender dye yellow color to raw wood in 1954 strat . I think my previous ash guitar yellow color too 3d and too bright.

 

[-CB-]

I'd try to sand off as much as possible on the ash body - you might not be able to bleach it, depending on the old finish.  Some old finishes will be in the grain of the wood, and resist almost all types of bleach. 

Wood bleach is more for dark woods or uneven colored woods that have never had a finish applied.

The water base grain filler - be sure to stir it regularly, also it must dry a LONG time.  When I use it, I prefer to "scrape" it into the grain to make less sanding.  You'll need to let it dry a long time... a week or more, because ash grain is very very deep - and as you noted, it will shrink, just like lacquer shrinks.  Once its dry, it should be ok

 

[Watershed]

I would really attack that with some 120 grit and a random orbital sander.
Edges/sides by hand.

I have no idea how deeply that yellow has penetrated the wood though.

Based on research, I believe that the two part bleach is really designed to bleach the wood rather than any pigment or dye.
I have not used the two part bleach yet, but do have some ready to go that I will be experimenting with soon.
Just haven't found the time yet.

I bought it to bleach the wood though.

Good luck,
James

 

[kwm488]

hi
thank you for your reply. i am sorry, i have few more question

1. thank to give me idea, =CB= . i think the old finish which is stay in the grain, because ash is very porous wood. and finish will resist the bleach. so if i apply more stipper, can i fix this problem? i am trying it now, will post the answer here. after applying stripper, i should use sand paper or steel wool my purpose is the finihs which stay in the grain?

2. in my concept, chlorine have reaction if it touch the color, so the color will blech. i believe it work on ash also. the problem is the old finish seperate the chlorine and stain. am i correct?

3. i have sanded this ash body with 120 grit sandpaper by hand. i haven't sanding machine. but if i use sanding machine with 120 grit sandpaper, i believe this ash body will thin much too much. will this affact the wood tone?

4. in fact, it is not matter even i can't bleach the wood back to nature white. because i will do two tone burst again. i will not care the bleach result of the side, it will be black color. but this main problem is the wood color not even. some is very white due to the sucessful of the wood bleach. but some is still remain yellow. so i need to bleach the wood to even color. i will spray sealer and yellow toner in this project. finally, if bleach is failure, can i spray more toner to the more white area to cheat the myself? 

5. the grain filler problem. thank =CB= yo give me the advice of waterbase grain filler. have you try timbermate grain filler. i think it may different, it will dry faster and will not shrink much. because it is wood filler. have you try it?

6. last, can someone tell me how can i get the correct reproduction of fender 54 2 tone burst stratocaster? i should use pigment yellow or amber stain? spray it after sealer , not dye, right?

sorry for much question.

i jsut finish my warmoth blue gutiar. first time, i get mistake with very deep blue color, so i bleach it and get the light blue color. chlorine bleach word perfect in maple wood. jsut don't know why it is not work on ash. here is photo

first photo is just bleached with household bleach.
second is the current ash body photo.it is used chlorine powder bleach and oxalic acid, but the color is uneven. now , i try to stripper more and bleach again, will take photo.

 

[tangent]

You may be able to use a poultice to get the deeper parts out (I assume the color is uneven where the finish had penetrated deeper)

Poultice is often used for stain removal on stone like granite and marble but the same technique can be used on wood too, I used it to remove a deep stain from a piece of teak once

 

[kwm488]

Hi
Thank to give me this very important information
But do you mind to give more detail? Where can I buy it? How to use it? Because I can't find this product Chinese name, so I need to see what is it.

 

[kwm488]

Hi
I find some information. TaLc chalk mix with water and apply to guitar , right ? It will pull the stain. In fact, what type of poultice you use? Have you mix it with other chemical like hergron peroxide or oxalic acid  and use?

Again, thank you for your information. I will try it tomorrow

 

[tangent]

What you use in the poultice depends on the type of stain you are trying to get out.. since you already used bleach or peroxide then you should start with those.

Or you can try solvents like ethanol or acetone.

The important thing with poultice is to seal off the workpiece, usually by wrapping with plastic or saran wrap, that way the bleach or solvent is trapped in the wood and saturates the problem area.  Then when you remove the wrap and it is exposed to air the absorbent powder will suck all of the solvent up and hopefully the stain comes with it =)

It may take some practice and several applications of poultice but it is a very effective technique once you learn how to do it right

 

[kwm488]

Hi

I check that Ink should use Poultice with Methylene Chloride +Powder. But methylene chlorine is very danger, It will make people dizzy if smell much. And I see some web page suggest mix powder and lacquer stripper to make poultice. I need to Cover the poultice with plastic (food wrap works great). Tape the plastic down to seal the edges. But lacquer stripper or methylene chlorine kill destroy the food wrap, so how this method work?

 

[tangent]

I don't know about methylene chloride, but with acetone or lacquer thinner you can use the food wrap which is made of LDPE

Most food wrap is made of PVC which will be degraded quickly by those solvents, LDPE will be degraded also but much slower.  I normally use 2-3 layers of LDPE plastic wrap if using acetone

 

[bagman67]

LDPE = low density polyethylene, yes?

 

[kwm488]

Hi
Thank

Do you mind to tell me what soution of your poultice in teak project?

 

[tangent]

The piece of teak I worked on had a spot where motor oil had absorbed into the wood (it had been sitting in my garage for several years)

I experimented with several solvents to get it out, acetone, denatured alcohol, mineral spirits and naptha.. in this case a mixture of acetone and naptha was most effective

For the poultice substrate I used tapioca starch (have also used cornstarch, potato starch, talc in the past).  Tapioca is better at absorbing oil than the others but any of them will work fine, powdered clays like bentonite work the best but they are expensive.