Planning a build. 7/8 Strat, 24.75"

[ztevie]

Hi!
I've been lurking around here from time to time. Always wanted to get a Warmoth, but never got around to it. But now I'm close to pull the trigger...
I'm a superstrat junkie. My favourite guitars are Peavey Vandenberg's. Got two of those. A custom quilt top and a standard... Excellent guitars! I have a few others. A custom built by a luithier after my specifiication, and a heavily modded Squier Classic Vibe.
As you may or may not know, the Vandenbergs are short scale, 24 fretters, with a thin neck. Very comfy, they are different from Ibby Wizards which I don't like that much... I like Fender modern necks more even if they are chunkier.

For a Warmoth build I would like to get as close to a Vandenberg as possible regarding playability and neck characteristics, but have a few other options, the biggest one is a hardtail. I don't use the trem very often, if ever. I guess tone and sustain won't suffer from getting a hardtail...

I hope you guys can give me suggestions, advice and opinions about this build. I play everything from progressive instrumental rock to metal. I love singing solotones a'la Sfogli and Petrucci... So here goes, my plan so far, any opinions welcome:

Body:
7/8 sized Strat.
Mahogany
Contoured Heel, forearm cut, tummy cut
Rear routed
1 Humbucker in bridge, 1 single coil in neck. No middle. Haven't decided about pickups yet. Probably Bareknuckle, but I also have my eyes on EMG's, was a loong time since I had them in a guitar. For the single coil I might go with a SC sized humbucker, I have good experience from a DiMarzio Chopper in another guitar.
Hardtail. Looking at Babicz and Schaller.
Gold or black hardware
5way switch
1 volume, 1 tone
Finish Alpine or Pearl White all around

Neck:
24.75", 24 frets
3A Birdseye maple, same for fretboard
Probably 10-16" compound, but I might go with 14" or something all the way...
Abalone or MOP dots
Medium Jumbo SS frets
GraphTech nut. Also been researching Earvana, could  be an alternative.
Locking tuners. Sperzel or Schaller probably...
Back contour: Here I'm hesitating. Standard Thin is #1 on my list right now, even though wixzard shoulkd be closer to my Vandenberg. Tried a Wolfgang once, I liked it... But is Warmoth's version the same?
Satin finish

Don't know if I forgot something, but... What da ya think?

edit: Forgot one thing. From what I've read many new warmoth necks need som fret job right away and maybe file the nut, this puts me off a little. I do setup myself, solder and all that but I'm not sure I'd be willing to take the risk ruin a new neck by doing those things. What's your opinion on this? I can mention I don't have a skilled guitar tech or luthier even remotely close to where I live...

 

[rapfohl09]

All that sounds good to me!

Its not like the necks are unplayable or something when they get to you. It is just a lot of times (should be everytime if its a reputable luthier) a custom guitar comes with a pretty extensive amount of fretwork done, leveling, crowning, polishing, rounding...all that great stuff. Warmoth has made thousands of necks, and they have some of the best tolerances I have seen on wooden products. They have the perfect tools for making what they make, and they don't cut corners when they do it. The frets are in great shape when they get to you, they just aren't in what some of us would call "perfect" shape. The first Warmoth neck I got I played for two years without ever doing anything to the neck other than setting the truss rod the first time I put it on the guitar. No problems what so ever.

I'll let others chime in and leave you with this, fretwork is not difficult. It is just like everything that people always pay other people to do because they are afraid they will destroy whatever they have.

Get some reading materials, figure out what you are supposed to do, get some tools, and have at it. Take things slowly and it will come out great.

 

[Creeping Death]

Hey, I have only one Warmoth at the moment and it has Jumbo SS frets, I have been playing on this guitar for almost a year now with no fret work done what so ever. I am like you in the fact that I do everything setup wise on my guitars with the exception of fret work.  My understanding is that unless you are after very low action with no fret buzz that it isn't really necessary, but I could be wrong as I only have my one Warmoth so I wouldn't really know the difference between one with fretwork done and one without. As long as it is setup with proper relief and action it should play as well or better than a high end manufactured guitar.

I have never played a Wolfgang  and don't know if the W is exact in dimensions, but i would go for that in the sense that you do find it comfortable and if by chance you don't you can always take off more wood to get it down to std thin or wizard if you find the Wolfgang to be too bulky.

Also about the neck, can I ask why you want maple as your fretboard wood? I don't want to talk you out of it, but I also am in the rock-metal playing styles and in my opinion I find maple to be quite sticky as a back and as a fretboard due to the fact that they are both finished. The Vandenbergs tend to use ebony as a fingerboard don't they? Which is a fast slick wood. I am sure you have experience with maple or else why would you want it, but like I said I am just curious as I find it to hinder my playing.

Thanks and welcome to the board!

 

[ORCRiST]

You definitely want the 10-16" compound radius, I'll never go back to a straight-radius neck again...

Out of curiosity, why Mahogany for the body? Other than that, looks like a nice build.

And you might want to ask Scartozi about some of the sweet hard-tail bridges he makes.  :icon_thumright:


ORC

 

[ztevie]

Thanks for the replies!

So I should expect a decent but not perfect fret job from the factory...? Maybe this is a good time learning this stuff. I could get the cheapest possible neck on the bay and hack away on that to get a feeling for it, I guess...
I am pretty anal about setup, intonation and such things. If for example a guitar has bad intonation and it's noticeable, I either fix it right away or it won't get played.

Creeping Death: Why maple? It's a fair question. It's more about the looks than anything... I find white guitars with maple boards incredibly sexy. Regarding stickyness, that's why I chose the satin finish for the neck.
The Vandenberg standard is ebony, yes. The Custom is rosewood. My other luthier built custom is also ebony. In my experience, maple with the right finish doesn't need to be sticky? I had a Ibanez once with a satin finish that had a very dry and fast feeling, compared to other normal laquered maple boards that I do agree is a bit sticky.
SO this is a good time to ask: Is Warmoth's satin finish for necks sticky or more on the smooth side? Is maple boards with warmoth satin up there with ebony regarding non-sticky, fast feeling?
If not, I just may reconsider, going with ebony instead. Tone/feel before looks.....

ORCRiST: Yeah, that compound is probably something I will try with this guitar. I like mahogany as a tonewood altough a bit dark sometimes. In my experience mahogany guitars are often more sustain-rich than some other woods, but I don't know if this is something really proven?  Therefore my thought was to let the mahogany in the body add to the low frequency and sustain while the maple neck adds spank, treble and bite.
I have no idea if I'm on the right track here, haha...!
I'll check out those bridges, thanks!!

 

[Creeping Death]

Creeping Death: Why maple? It's a fair question. It's more about the looks than anything... I find white guitars with maple boards incredibly sexy. Regarding stickyness, that's why I chose the satin finish for the neck.

Haha looks are very important I myself think white guitars with ebony boards are crazy sexy especially if the board does not have any inlays. That clean white and black look I love it. Add some white binding on that neck and whoa, simple and sexy.

I also agree that after playing on compound radius boards i wouldn't go back to a straight radius. Not sure if you have played on any Jackson guitars, but they usually have compound radius.

Wish I had more insight for you, good luck to you, hopefully some of the more seasoned Warmoth players on this board will answer the rest of your questions

 

[swarfrat]

If you never ever use the trem, by all means go hardtail. It's not like trems are inherently evil, but IMNSHO on this point, it's a lot like a bender. They exist, everyone knows about them, if you want one you should certainly have the option. But how in the world did we ever get to where the trem police come knockin on your door if you don't put one on a guitar?

You certainly won't hurt your tone by going hardtail. I think it actually improves the tone.

 

[ztevie]

If you never ever use the trem, by all means go hardtail. It's not like trems are inherently evil, but IMNSHO on this point, it's a lot like a bender. They exist, everyone knows about them, if you want one you should certainly have the option. But how in the world did we ever get to where the trem police come knockin on your door if you don't put one on a guitar?

You certainly won't hurt your tone by going hardtail. I think it actually improves the tone.

Haha, yeah I know. I have 3 trem equipped guitars and one that's hardtail. I wouldn't say the hardtail is superior for tone and sustain, but it sure helps keeping it in tune.
I do use the trem sometimes, though on very rare occasions. And I never divebomb or anything like that. UNfortunately playing a lot of old 80's stuff like Van Halen, it's hard to play authentic versions without a trem. 
That 2tek hardtail looks massive, I get an impression I would get best possible connection to the body with that, unfortunately they don't come in gold or black which is what I would like on this guitar.
But nothing's written in stone yet, so who knows, I may end up with ebony board and chrome hardware?

 

[Kostas]

From my experience:

I prefer Korina over Mahogany, tonally close but Korina seems more clear to me.

Warmoths satin finish is very smooth, I prefer it from raw necks. People say it gets glossy with time, mine it's still satin in 2+ years.

Try Hipshot or Gotoh staggered locking tuners if you'll use a straight headstock. I suggest the same companies for a hardtail bridge.

 

[ztevie]

From my experience:

I prefer Korina over Mahogany, tonally close but Korina seems more clear to me.

Warmoths satin finish is very smooth, I prefer it from raw necks. People say it gets glossy with time, mine it's still satin in 2+ years.

Try Hipshot or Gotoh staggered locking tuners if you'll use a straight headstock. I suggest the same companies for a hardtail bridge.

THanks! Added to the consider list...
By the way, how would you compare warmoth maple fretboards with satin finish and ebony board? Regarding feel and stickyness?

 

[Kostas]

...By the way, how would you compare warmoth maple fretboards with satin finish and ebony board? Regarding feel and stickyness?

I don't have a maple fretboard, just a maple neck. So far I have chosen SS6105 frets and I rarely feel the fretboard, just the strings & frets. The satin finish will feel the same on the fretboard as on the neck.

 

[stubhead]

I specifically find Warmoth frets to seated quite properly (I don't play shreddy 1/279th inch action), but the ends can very from bearable to pretty sharp. Maybe not cut-you sharp, but it is one little thing that impedes my playing. I actually think it's kinda dumb to do a complete leveling (or Plek!) on a brand new neck, because they inevitably settle a bit through a few season changes. So I just take care of the fret ends (not a hard thing, you have to think and read a bit. NOT in that order! :laughing7: ). Somewhere past a year in, I'll do a leveling, crown and polish, because it DOES help me play better. If your frets bite, you have to tame them.. there are countless people here (4? 10? 17?) who "didn't do" fretwork, until, they did. You just have to think small, and check your progress till you get used to whatever tools and processes feel familiar - there's about three ways to do 'em, they can all turn out ducky. At the age of 55, my biggest problem is being able to SEE all that little damn stuff, Optivisor required!

 

[Dan025]

the way warmoth does the frets they height is so consistant that if there is a high fret, it may have just lifted in transit. a tap with a plastic hammer may be all you need. it's not likely you would have a whole section of frets that don't match the others.

i'll make it clear. warmoth does not do fret work. the frets are not leveled or pollished they are just pressed in. that said my 2 warmoth necks were flawless as far as heights go. so yes there are rumors that you'll need fretwork because warmoth doesn't take that step, they sell parts, not guitars, and fret leveling is part of a good setup from a good tech. why would they remove material without having the whole guitar there to do a setup? it's just not what they do. don't believe that every raw manufacured part need leveling because warmoths are often good out of the box for no other reason than they do that good of a job on the fretboard and install.

as far as the nut. the slots are there. they may be slightly high but mine don't bind and the height is bareable. you can probably get a set of nut files from amazon or stewmac. pickup a good book on guitar repair. i have the popular one from dan erliwine somewhere, forget the exact title. i read it back in highschool.

as far as a level your best bet is to wait a year or two. my maple neck did eventually get a high 2nd fret as the wood seasoned. that's on my to do list.

 

[Cagey]

I've gone through a lotta necks here, many of them Warmoths, and I almost always find at least 4 or 5 frets that need attention. There's been once I had to do nothing, on my Ebony over Bloodwood neck, and once or twice I've only had 2 or 3 that needed attention. I've never been successful pounding frets down on Warmoth necks to avoid having to file on them, probably because they glue their frets in. They don't want to move, and even if they did, I'd be worried that they'd rebound shortly down the road.

But, don't get the impression Warmoth is shipping wavy fretboards - they're not. They're very good and you can easily play one of their necks right out of the box, and will likely set up better than many OEM instruments. It just depends how good you want it. I get fretboards level to <.001", then the dressing and polishing finishes them off. I don't play them that close; I'm not a shredder. But, I like the neck to be that good.

 

[ztevie]

Yeah, I live in north Sweden with very dry winters, so I know a new guitar or even an old one bought from somewhere else will need some work after a while. I always have to adjust the truss rod after a month. after a year or two tha fret ends come out a little and need to be filed down.
This is no problem, it's the leveling I don't feel comfortable doing. I understand that if you take too much in one place you'll have to adjust everywhere else. I could always buy a tool that does the radius I will have, but since I'll probably go with compound I feel it's a bit over my skill level...

 

[elgravos]

Yep, sounds like you'll definitely sprout some fret ends with the long dry winters. 

Back to some of the earlier questions:

I find the Warmoth Wolfgang surprisingly chunky.  It seems you've played the original and I am sure the Warmoth version is very close so you should know what to expect.  But for someone who likes standard thin / Gibson 60s, I really could never deal with the Wolfgang.  I've had one for a number of years and finally decided to do away with it and replace it with a wizard.  More on that some other time.

I do like the standard thin on a 24.75 scale.  It actually feels different than on the 25.5 scale.  For whatever reason, it feels a tiny bit chunkier - though it may be a result of a different radius I have on the 24.75 neck (12 inch straight radius on the short scale vs standard compound radius on the 25.5).

The warmoth satin is nice but I would say it wears out to gloss relatively quickly - but that's pretty easy to fix.  Just get some very fine grit sand paper and you can turn it back to satin in no time. Someone posted a link to an Italian luthier giving a demonstration of how it's done a while back - probably on the raw neck polishing thread. Afraid I'm too lazy to go digging right now but you should be able to find it pretty easily.

Nice build otherwise.  I would skip out on the gold though!

 

[swarfrat]

Haha, yeah I know. I have 3 trem equipped guitars and one that's hardtail.

This right here. I see a lot of guys go through iterations of "The Ultimatest Guitar Ever" v1, v2, v3, v4, rather than building depth into the stable. If you're a gigging musician, and you need 4 identical super strats, or 5  teles, or 7 floyded guitars because you need multiple backups because you're using floating trems AND more than one tuning.  But improvements on one already in the stable for us 3-5 guitar guys should be like bulls on a dairy farm. It better be darned good at what it does, there's only room for a handful of that job title on the farm.

 

[stubhead]

This is no problem, it's the leveling I don't feel comfortable doing. I understand that if you take too much in one place you'll have to adjust everywhere else. I could always buy a tool that does the radius I will have, but since I'll probably go with compound I feel it's a bit over my skill level...

This is another one of those things... people who don't know how will tell you it's all mystical and fraught with peril...

After you take off the strings, You adjust the trussrod to be straight again. You tape off all the wood. You take a magic marker (Oh! seee, MAGIC :evil4 and slobber ink all over the tops of the frets. The ink tells you what to do. I use a (dead flat, unused, 6 pound) Japanese sharpening stone with usually 320 grit wet/dry paper wrapped around it. What happens is, you're just taking off metal down to the low, worn points. So as you stroke, you watch the ink disappear off the high parts. And when you see a thin line of shiny metal, all along the top of every fret - they're level! Now you re-ink them, and crown them by rounding the sides up to the top line of ink, but that's the easy part.

What determines the spots that need to be lowered is the ink left on the low worn spots. And what determines those were the actual string paths as you played for a year or five. I hate to use the word foolproof, but if you "get" what the process is doing, and you don't use a frikkin' belt sander or something, the process keeps you from goofing the neck. The ink tells you what to do. And the compound radius doesn't even matter - you just follow the ink around, and the ink will take care of the "think" part.

Just about every goof that people do to guitars involves overkill. So, DON'T.

What it is, is tedious. Cause after the crowning you get to redo all the ends of the frets. 22 frets, 44 ends, 88 fret corners.... usually the first three or so are fun. 85 to go....

 

[ztevie]

This right here. I see a lot of guys go through iterations of....

I'm not sure I get the point your making since english is not my native language... :icon_smile:
But for me, it's a hobby more than anything else. I don't gig anymore, so I don't really need this many guitars. Even so, as a "bedroom" guitarist, I'm already covered in all aspects for what I play.
I've got a singlecoil strat for those kind of tones, two Vandenberg's for the shred devil in me, a custom build with hardtail for me by a Polish luthier, a bass and an acoustic Yamaha. I do mod my guitars when I find they could be improved, mainly changing pickups to fit that particular guitar.
So I don't NEED a Warmoth for any purpose besides the fun of getting one. I have however been wanting to get one for years. Of course I'll try to configure it to be the perfect guitar for me, altough I know there's no such thing.

This is another one of those things... people who don't know how will tell you it's all mystical and fraught with peril...

OK, seems easy enough. I'll just be careful and take baby steps and see where I end up. Thanks!

 

[MikeW]

I built a white body-black hardware-maple/maple super Strat a couple of years ago. Nothing like the contrast of the white, the black and the maple to set it off. Really a great combination.

As far as frets go, as many have said previously, I needed one (1!) fret filed on each of the two new Warmoth necks I've got  because they were high. The one thing that I do have done is the ends. They are a bit sharp for me out of the box. I do play shreddy instrumental stuff and was able to set up both of my Warmoth necks to really low action right out of the box. An adjustment to the truss rod after about 6 months was necessary, but both of them have been perfect since then, with no adjustments needed.

I have found the satin finish that Warmoth applies to get shiny and a bit 'sticky' after a while. A bit of 1000 sandpaper or some steel wool knocked the stickiness out of it right away. I just LIGHTY rub the paper up and down the neck a couple times and Done!

Good luck with your build. Be sure to post some pics along the way.