Piezo wiring issues

[Orpheo]

I have a fishman powerbridge in a telecaster of mine (charvel limited editoin  :headbang: ) and I want to have the following:

the piezo-signal permanently to one portion of the stereojack.

At the same time, I want a 3 way toggle with which I can choose; magnetic, piezo, or both. the problem is: I cant get the wiring right! Directly soldering the piezo to the switch (3 way ala les paul) and the magnetics; that works just fine. no great drop in output, its just a piezo this way. but when I solder a line from the lug where the piezo is hooked on to the ring of the jack, I get problems. the output of the switch is directed towards that ring, and the other part of the jack is out of order. (short circuit).


How can I solder it right? I like to have the option of a stereocable, and running one part of the signal (the clear piezo) to a PA and the other one to my amp. I dont want to use an AB-box, but that might be an easier way though...

 

[Stage Fright]

Are you wanting to run both stereo and mono jack plugs?  Plugging a mono plug into a stereo jack shorts the stereo pin to ground (great for saving batteries BTW).

If I understand what you are trying to do, running the "both" setting, you'll be mixing magnet and piezo signal on both the mono wire and the stereo wire.  You can not send the piezo signal both places and not have the magnetic in both places too.

Simplest solution is to:
Use a stereo plug.  Hook the piezo to the stereo jack out only.  Hook the magnet to the three-way toggle only.  Wire the toggle as:
on-on-off.
or:
Use a mono jack & plug and wire the 3-way as magnetic-both-piezo.

If that doesn't help, upload a diagram.

  ---Russ

 

[Orpheo]

Hmm, I dont think I made myself clear. I'll try again.

I want to have with a 3 way toggle magnetic/piezo+magnetic/piezo (easy to do). That will go to a portion of the stereojack in such a way, that I can work with a monocable.

If I have a stereocable, I want to have the same, but on the other part of the stereocable, I want to have the piezo only. That way I can play with the clean piezo on the PA, and mix onboard magnetic and piezo for my regular amp, my jcm800. how can this be wired?

 

[tfarny]

Orpheo, what your describing is exactly what the graphtech piezo system does normally, I have it installed in my thinline. The stereo / mono jack switching won't work that I can figure out; plugging in a mono cable to your stereo jack will send your 'ring' signal to ground every time, I believe thats how its designed. The graphtech has something in the preamp circuitry that senses what kind of cable you're using and adjusts accordingly. Sorry, don't think it's possible to easily do it yourself, but sounds like the 'powerchip' thing (the fishman preamp) does it. http://www.fishman.com/products/details.asp?id=33
You need a preamp to get those things to sound decent, anyhow.

 

[Orpheo]

Orpheo, what your describing is exactly what the graphtech piezo system does normally, I have it installed in my thinline. The stereo / mono jack switching won't work that I can figure out; plugging in a mono cable to your stereo jack will send your 'ring' signal to ground every time, I believe thats how its designed. The graphtech has something in the preamp circuitry that senses what kind of cable you're using and adjusts accordingly. Sorry, don't think it's possible to easily do it yourself, but sounds like the 'powerchip' thing (the fishman preamp) does it. http://www.fishman.com/products/details.asp?id=33
You need a preamp to get those things to sound decent, anyhow.

I know, but Fishman, the manufacturer of my piezo, also states that  i can use a 250/300k ohm pot with some resistors and capacitors in stead of that fishman preamp-thingy. I have that, and blending on board with a mono jack and a 3 way toggle (mag/mag+piezo/piezo) works fine. All I want is a permanent link of the piezo to the ring, so that is cut short with the mono cable, but goes to another amp with a stereocable, and the output of the toggle goes to a normal amp.

 

[Crappy]

Is this what you are trying to do?

 

[Orpheo]

Is this what you are trying to do?

no, i've done that before, I want something else.

I want to have on the tip of the stereojack permanently the piezo-signal. When a mono-cable is plugged in, the signal from this jack is not being used.

On the ring I want to have the option of magnetic, piezo, or both. When I have a monocable, I will have that signal. I can blend piezo and magnetic onboard.

BUT when i have a stereocable, I want to be able to send the piezo to a PA, and the 'mix' to a normal amp.

how can i wire this?

 

[stubhead]

I think you'd have to physically split the piezo output inside the guitar and send one wire to each place. If you do it after the piezo volume, that control will affect the level of both  the PA and amp piezo signal. It would be most versatile to split the signal and send each wire to separate volume controls, maybe a concentric one to save space, then send one signal to the combined output & the other to the stereo lug. You can get 500/500ohm, 500/250ohm, and 250/250ohm concentric pots pretty easy.

P.S. (When I think about it, it's hard to see how you could get away without having a switch to cut out the stereo signal also - when the mono cable grounds it out, it's going to take out the whole thing if it's not switched out? I think...)

 

[Orpheo]

I think you'd have to physically split the piezo output inside the guitar and send one wire to each place. If you do it after the piezo volume, that control will affect the level of both  the PA and amp piezo signal. It would be most versatile to split the signal and send each wire to separate volume controls, maybe a concentric one to save space, then send one signal to the combined output & the other to the stereo lug. You can get 500/500ohm, 500/250ohm, and 250/250ohm concentric pots pretty easy.

P.S. (When I think about it, it's hard to see how you could get away without having a switch to cut out the stereo signal also - when the mono cable grounds it out, it's going to take out the whole thing if it's not switched out? I think...)

yeah, that crossed my mind too. I have a bunch of concentric pots. I already have one installed! i use it as a volume for the piezo and tone. the volumepot for the magnetic pickups is a push pull to put the 2 mag.pickups in series.

 

[Crappy]

From what I am reading from the fishman site you are going to need the Fishman Powerchip
I know what you want to do with it, I am installing one into a les paul and it needs the powerchip

 

[tfarny]

You need the powerchip, what you want is just not possible with normal wiring, I think.