Pedalboard power supply questions...

[Re-Pete]

I don't own many pedals, have off loaded quite a few over the years tho.

What I have left - and will use - I want to house in a rackmounted drawer in my home studio.

I want to buy a good quality isolated power supply. While I won't be buying many more effects pedals I want to future proof my drawer by getting a good quality PS & one that may be able to take digital effects (I understand they do take quite a lot of current draw when used) if I buy them in the future.

A lot of my effects can be done 'in the box' from the Kemper but some of those on their default settings are pretty mild. I guess, however,  I should delve deeper into the settings there before passing judgement on that section of the Kemper.

I also want to try & use an 18v connection for an EMG - ES-18 power pack which powers guitars I have that house active electronics. EMG themselves dismiss the concept of an external power supply for the ES-18 (they don't make them & claim they haven't found one to recommend) as they believe it introduces noise to the signal chain, but strangely, have included a power socket in the ES-18 pedal.

Now: if I buy a good quality power supply and daisy chain up 2 x 9v outputs into 18v and both of those are isolated (or the power supply comes with a dedicated 18v isolated output), I may have a chance of avoiding noise. If it fails, well, I tried and go back to using 2 batteries inside the ES18. (BTW, just curious, what's the mA of the usual 9v battery that goes into the pedals?)

I've looked at VoodooLabs, I've looked at TRex, I looked at Cioks & even MXR/CAE MC403.  My head is starting to spin :tard:

One thing I'm getting hooked up on is the mA ratings?

Most of the older pedals were very light on the current consumption.

But I do have an old Electro Harmonix Little Big Muff pedal that might need some extra mA?

I'm guessing the 18v 'experiment' I want to try, will have a best chance of succeeding if I get an outlet with higher mA than lower? (I'm assuming the higher the mA rating, the more consistent & 'clean' the power will be?)

I simply don't know enough about both the pedals I want to hook up, or the mA current implications on electricity!

If I get a 9v or 18v outlet with a ridiculous high mA but the pedal only needs say 80mA, will it affect the pedal's performance (maybe even damage it?) or will it just give the pedal a cleaner performance ability?  :dontknow:

I apologise for asking all this. I should have learnt this sort of theory years ago, but didn't. I'm not a technician or electrician, so the theory has never been a necessity.

When I have been doing speaker cabinet matches or any other electrical match up, I usually go conservative & try to match things up exactly.

I'm now in the process of tidying up my home studio and want to formalise a more modular approach to the various parts of it, so that means getting a pedal drawer up & running. I'm sick of tripping over cords/leads.

Many thanx to folks who can add a bit of advice here.  :icon_thumright:

 

[Cagey]

mA (milliAmperes or thousandths of an Ampere) ratings describe how much current a device will supply or require. In terms of loads (powered devices), the rating describes how much current the device will draw/require. In terms of supplies, the rating describes how much current  the supply can provide.

Most pedals (loads) don't draw/require a great deal of current as they're designed to run on batteries, which have a limited supply of current available before they go tits-up. The "Little Muff Pi" you mention would be one of those. Barely takes anything to keep one of those alive. However, some devices are more hungry than others. For instance, MXR makes a 6 band EQ that will eat batteries like they're free. Many wireless units are the same way. In any event, even disregarding cost, keeping track of battery age/capacity is a pain in the shorts, so we have power supplies to eliminate the need for them.

Since current (mA) is drawn rather than fed, you really can't have too large a supply. You can hook up device that only requires 50mA to a supply that can source 10,000 mA, and it'll be fine. The device will only draw as much as it needs. So, in a sense, bigger is better. The only downside is that the more current a supply can provide, the more it costs. So, you try to match them up as best you can, plus a little bit for comfort so the thing doesn't get too hot or suffer voltage drops.

Which brings us to the other side of the power equation - voltage. Many devices are sensitive to voltage, which can be though of as pressure.  Unlike current, which is drawn, voltage is applied. Too much can be a Bad Thing. With that, you must match things up, or you can destroy them. Not always, but a lot more often than you'd think. Voltage is a force, as opposed to current which is a flow. So, long story short, if something is only designed to take 9 volts, you don't dare feed it 18. Exceptions exist, of course, but applying the appropriate voltage should be thought of as a rule, not a suggestion.

So, if you need both voltages, buy a supply that can provide both, and be sure it can source enough current to support the total device load you expect to connect.

 

[Re-Pete]

mA (milliAmperes or thousandths of an Ampere) ratings describe how much current a device will supply or require. In terms of loads (powered devices), the rating describes how much current the device will draw/require. In terms of supplies, the rating describes how much current  the supply can provide.
.....
Since current (mA) is drawn rather than fed, you really can't have too large a supply. You can hook up device that only requires 50mA to a supply that can source 10,000 mA, and it'll be fine. The device will only draw as much as it needs. So, in a sense, bigger is better. The only downside is that the more current a supply can provide, the more it costs. So, you try to match them up as best you can, plus a little bit for comfort so the thing doesn't get too hot or suffer voltage drops.
.

Thank you for this advice as I was worried if I put a pedal that only drew a small mA or so that it could be fried - like as you allude to re: voltage ratings.. :icon_thumright:

 

[Death by Uberschall]

A single Voodoo Labs PP2 powers my entire board (9/12/18v as needed) including my switching unit.

All of my effects stay on all the time.

 

[AndyG]

I use a Voodoo Labs ISO5 to power my board ... solid as a rock.

In fact, I use the "high current" output with a OneSpot daisy-chain connector to power 5 of my pedals.
With the ISO5, Voodoo Labs also supplies a cable that will allow you to power the Line 6 modeling pedals.

 

[fdesalvo]

A single Voodoo Labs PP2 powers my entire board

Oh, no you don't - not so fast.  Rig run down!

 

[Death by Uberschall]

A single Voodoo Labs PP2 powers my entire board

Oh, no you don't - not so fast.  Rig run down!

Lol, whole rig or just the pedal board?

 

[Re-Pete]

Thanx for the advice. I got brave & went to a music shop on a Saturday morning  :help: & bought a VooDoo Labs ISO5.

While I was waiting for the guy I spoke to on the phone earlier I looked at some pedals that I had only seen in YT vids. Yeah I don't get out much.  :sad1:

There was some tiny (and I mean matchbox sized tiny!) pedals from TC Electronics that were hilarious & I have to admit the variety on show from a number of manufacturers was tasty. As I did say to the sales guy, if I didn't have the Kemper (which houses pedal profiles in the box and I'm yet to delve into anything past the default settings there), I would have to keep coming back..  :toothy11:

Also, while I was there I bought a Furman Power Conditioner.

Both of these will help a lot with my home studio's operation once I get an opportunity to get some IEC extension leads & figure out how to rearrange everything to match...  :icon_scratch:

I would like to put all the rackmounted gear that uses IEC sockets into the one Rack Box with the Furman, but we will see. It may end up a nightmare of patch leads for the audio signal, in behind.. :doh:

 

[Cagey]

There was some tiny (and I mean matchbox sized tiny!) pedals from TC Electronics that were hilarious & I have to admit the variety on show from a number of manufacturers was tasty. As I did say to the sales guy, if I didn't have the Kemper (which houses pedal profiles in the box and I'm yet to delve into anything past the default settings there), I would have to keep coming back..  :toothy11:

If you're the type of guy that likes to take things apart, you'd see that the vast majority of sfx pedals involve very little circuitry. If you discount the box, most of them should only cost $3.25, if that, including labor. If you wanna include the box, add $1. And since the current trend is to populate pedalboards with as many stomp boxes as possible, you wanna make 'em small so you can fit more, lest you be left by the wayside.

 

[Re-Pete]

There was some tiny (and I mean matchbox sized tiny!) pedals from TC Electronics that were hilarious & I have to admit the variety on show from a number of manufacturers was tasty. As I did say to the sales guy, if I didn't have the Kemper (which houses pedal profiles in the box and I'm yet to delve into anything past the default settings there), I would have to keep coming back..  :toothy11:

If you're the type of guy that likes to take things apart, you'd see that the vast majority of sfx pedals involve very little circuitry. If you discount the box, most of them should only cost $3.25, if that, including labor. If you wanna include the box, add $1. And since the current trend is to populate pedalboards with as many stomp boxes as possible, you wanna make 'em small so you can fit more, lest you be left by the wayside.

I recently took apart the Little Big Muff, Dunlop Cry Baby & Vox 1901 Distortion I have & yes, very little inside - and those were made in the 1970s - or from designs from that era. One of those TC tiny pedals was a HOF, I think that's one with a Hall Of Fame setting put inside it. I'd laugh loudly if the tiny thing had this massive echo/reverb sound come from it...  Mind you switching the tiny things on/off would be pain as your foot would cover the whole pedal.

I get your point too, SOMEONE is making $$ from these pedals. Given advances in digital technology, miniaturisation and chip design these pedals can be made at a  consistent quality if you can get the parts working as you want them to.There's not much to them parts wise & after you've cast the casing & worked out the circuit all you have to do is protect your trademark or any patent..

 

[Cagey]

Back 100 years ago, a buddy of mine and I thought we'd get rich making some simple pedals, mainly EH's LPB-1 and the Big Muff Pi. Absolutely nothing to them, but as it worked out, we'd only save people $5-$10 apiece on them, so it was kinda pointless. Of course, back then you could buy an LPB-1 for $19.95 and Big Muffs were only about $49.95 if the dealer hated you. It just drove us nuts to think that somebody was making money on a little spiderweb of $3 worth of parts. Unfortunately, getting somebody to make you decent boxes turned out to be a bigger problem than we anticipated, unless you wanted a bajillion of them.

 

[mayfly]

+1 on this.  In my experience with audio electronics, the box is the most expensive part. 

I've built a few really awesome Bluetooth stereos.  The electronics are cheap, the drivers are cheapish, but the (walnut) box is easily half of the parts cost.  Nice box mind you...

If I could figure out a nice looking box for this application that costs under $50 I'd be a happy guy.

 

[jmcecil]

The economics of lot of things like pedals isn't based on the cost of the parts.  It't the cost of consistent production, support, distribution, suitable labor, and the hope of longevity.  I've built my share of pedals to include several flavors of Fuzz, a few types of distortion, a chorus, a flange, bucket brigade delay etc...  You can get the schematics for pretty much any stomp on the internet these days.  Analog pedals are total blow-off to make.  And with the exception of a few rare components, they are extremely cheap.  However, after I made a few dozen and understood how they worked, the charm of making them deteriorated. Then if you look at my man-hour time vs cost of a production unit, they aren't that expensive even thought the parts are dirt cheap.

Digital is another matter.  The question is, are the manufacturers really doing algorithm dev or just chunking well traveled paths.  Actual algo dev is time consuming.  Embedded devices by the thousands are cheap, by the 100s not so much.