P-Rails wiring/switch question

[CrackedPepper]

Hi,

I am getting ready to wire my new P-Rail pickups.  I am using a 2 P-Rail/1 volume/1 tone/3 way/ 2 push/pulls configuration.  I want to make sure that I am translating the diagram correctly for my Switchcraft 3 way toggle switch.  I created a diagram where I numbered each of the switch terminals using the switch from the wiring diagram on seymourduncan.com.  Then I numbered the (corresponding?) terminals using two different views of my Switchcraft 3 way toggle switch.  The drawing is below.

In seymourduncan.com diagram, they have terminals 2 and 3 going to the Volume pot.  Can one of you folks tell me which two terminals on the Switchcraft toggle go to the Volume pot?

Thanks for your help!

CP

 

[dmraco]

this may help...let us know how you like them.  I have them in one of my builds and I love the p-90 setting
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=3ws_trans

 

[CrackedPepper]

Thanks Dave - I appreciate your help.  I'm sorry to say that the translation did not help at all.  I did manage to find the picture below for a Switchcraft 3 way but I still don't understand how to map that into the SD diagrams.

 

[ocguy106]

do you have a multi-meter that has a continuity test tone? If so put one end to "G" on the switch and with the switch being in the middle position touch all 4 other posts. You should get a test tone out of 2 of them...that will be "2" and "3" on your diagram. the other 2 should only make a tone one at a time depending on if the swith is up or down and those would be 1 and 4. might sound confusing but it should be pretty easy.

Ken

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Thanks Dave - I appreciate your help.  I'm sorry to say that the translation did not help at all.  I did manage to find the picture below for a Switchcraft 3 way but I still don't understand how to map that into the SD diagrams.

On your 3 way toggle, your green wire is the same as the 3 way blade switch's wire labeled "hot output from switch.  The other two are for the neck and bridge pickups.  Wire it up like that.  If it's working opposite of what you wanted [bridge position is neck, neck postion is bridge], you can de solder and switch the 2, or rotate the switch 180 degrees.

Your blue and read wires are the same as the 2 black wires going from the 3 way blade switch to the DPDT portion of the Volume push/pull.

IMO, this configuration is not intuitive enough in it's switching.  You have to learn where and what the positions are rather than logically look at them and know.  The advantage is that it uses all three modes the pickup is capable of, single coil, humbucking (series or parallel), and P-90.  The disadvantage is that it does them to both pickups simultaneously.  You don't get the benefits of mixing a P-90 and hum.  Since you're using 2 push/pull and it only has 2 positions.  I'd dedicate each one to a perspective pickup.  Make the Volume knob control the neck pickup and the Tone knob control the bridge pickup.  With 2 posisitions, make those the most popular of the 2 modes of the pickup, series humbucking and a P-90.  The non-P-90 single coil and parallel humbucking are the least desireable sounds of that mode.  I'll take 3 good sounds over 600 different sounds anyday.

 

[CrackedPepper]

do you have a multi-meter that has a continuity test tone? If so put one end to "G" on the switch and with the switch being in the middle position touch all 4 other posts. You should get a test tone out of 2 of them...that will be "2" and "3" on your diagram. the other 2 should only make a tone one at a time depending on if the swith is up or down and those would be 1 and 4. might sound confusing but it should be pretty easy.

Ken

Thanks Ken - I'll try this tonight.

 

[CrackedPepper]

On your 3 way toggle, your green wire is the same as the 3 way blade switch's wire labeled "hot output from switch.  The other two are for the neck and bridge pickups.  Wire it up like that.  If it's working opposite of what you wanted [bridge position is neck, neck postion is bridge], you can de solder and switch the 2, or rotate the switch 180 degrees.

Your blue and read wires are the same as the 2 black wires going from the 3 way blade switch to the DPDT portion of the Volume push/pull.

That helps alot - thank you

IMO, this configuration is not intuitive enough in it's switching.  You have to learn where and what the positions are rather than logically look at them and know.  The advantage is that it uses all three modes the pickup is capable of, single coil, humbucking (series or parallel), and P-90.  The disadvantage is that it does them to both pickups simultaneously.  You don't get the benefits of mixing a P-90 and hum.  Since you're using 2 push/pull and it only has 2 positions.  I'd dedicate each one to a perspective pickup.  Make the Volume knob control the neck pickup and the Tone knob control the bridge pickup.  With 2 posisitions, make those the most popular of the 2 modes of the pickup, series humbucking and a P-90.  The non-P-90 single coil and parallel humbucking are the least desireable sounds of that mode.  I'll take 3 good sounds over 600 different sounds anyday.

Thanks STDC - You've given me a lot to think about.  I am not sure what you mean by "non-P90 single coil" but I like your idea of being able to combine P-90 and humbuckers.  I'll play around with it this weekend and see where it goes....

 

[Gingrel]

[The non-P-90 single coil and parallel humbucking are the least desireable sounds of that mode.

Tone is subjective. One person's dream sound is another's worst nightmare. I personally prefer the parallel humbucking mode to the series. Talking about thing being "desirable" is misleading. I would recommend trying out each sound of the P-rails, seeing which you like and then wiring for your favourites.

Back to the original post, have you considered triple shot rings?? that way you get every tone possible out of the P-Rails, and can use your push-pulls for things like phase reversal or putting your two P-rails in series with each other...

 

[CrackedPepper]

I hear ya about subjectivity - I just appreciate how much help folks have been on this issue.

My goal is to get the pickups wired as indicated on the SD wiring diagram and go from there.  My limited experience with wiring draws me toward keeping it as simple as possible for now... I'll keep triple shots as an option in the future.  Thanks!

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

I am not sure what you mean by "non-P90 single coil" but I like your idea of being able to combine P-90 and humbuckers. 

I didn't know what else to call it.  It's a P-90, a humbucker, then there's the other coil.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Tone is subjective. One person's dream sound is another's worst nightmare. I personally prefer the parallel humbucking mode to the series. Talking about thing being "desirable" is misleading. I would recommend trying out each sound of the P-rails, seeing which you like and then wiring for your favourites.

You're absolutely right.  The parallel humbucker, which is what a Strat is in positions 2 and 4, sounds different than a normal full sized 2 wire 180 degrees out-of-phase humbucker.  Desireable implies opinion but most of the sets of full sized humbucking coils out there are in series, and to simplify the use of the wiring, choices were compromised.  I did preface that paragraph with an IMO.

 

[Dan025]

Thanks Dave - I appreciate your help.  I'm sorry to say that the translation did not help at all.  I did manage to find the picture below for a Switchcraft 3 way but I still don't understand how to map that into the SD diagrams.

les pauls have two volumes but nothing says that switch needs a signal from a volume. what says neck volume is neck hot(the black wire from the lower right side lug of the switch in the volume control(upper pot in drawing)) what says birdge volume is bridge hot which is also a black wire from the pickup and connected to the lower left side of the same switch.

to output goes to the volume pot and tone circuit.

the switch is constructed similarly to the one shown in the diagram. look at the layers, ground is not needed other than sheilding purposes and is a heavy plate in the center, then insulators above and below, then two plates one above and one below that get soldered together and more or less become the common in that arrangement, then more insulators then two outer plates that go to the pickup.

the only difference is where the solder lugs are on the plates.

 

[Dan025]

ok i just noticed your numbering,

2-3 on the pic of the duncan is 1-2 on your switcraft pic. 1-4 on duncan pic is 3-4 on yours. i'd edit the pic to show the corrected numbering of the switchcraft to make it crystal clear but it's too late now, maybe later when i wake up.

 

[Gingrel]

Tone is subjective. One person's dream sound is another's worst nightmare. I personally prefer the parallel humbucking mode to the series. Talking about thing being "desirable" is misleading. I would recommend trying out each sound of the P-rails, seeing which you like and then wiring for your favourites.

You're absolutely right.  The parallel humbucker, which is what a Strat is in positions 2 and 4, sounds different than a normal full sized 2 wire 180 degrees out-of-phase humbucker.  Desireable implies opinion but most of the sets of full sized humbucking coils out there are in series, and to simplify the use of the wiring, choices were compromised.  I did preface that paragraph with an IMO.

Sorry if I came across a bit accusatory. Disadvantage of online communication... I was just throwing in my 2 cents.

The parallel wiring on a P-rail is supposed to sound more like a PAF sound than the series mode, and bear little resemblance to a standard parallel humbucker.

 

[Gingrel]

I hear ya about subjectivity - I just appreciate how much help folks have been on this issue.

My goal is to get the pickups wired as indicated on the SD wiring diagram and go from there.  My limited experience with wiring draws me toward keeping it as simple as possible for now... I'll keep triple shots as an option in the future.  Thanks!

Triple shots are incredibly easy to wire. There's a great video on how to install them: http://www.seymourduncan.com/movie/Triple_Shot/352/228