Omitting body routing options

TaddleTele

New member
Messages
7
Is there anyone who can educate me on why Warmoth can’t omit certain routing features?

I’m aiming for a lightweight and adaptable Deluxe using the Tele Hybrid as a base.

Ideally I’d like to be able to purchase the Tele Hybrid with chambered construction, all the contouring options, Tele Deluxe style control cavities and universal pickup routing. Can’t be done according to the website and Warmoth Sales. Absolutely fair enough. I’m asking for something that isn’t programmed into the routing database. Who the heck would break the whole system for one customer? I get that.

The Tele Hybrid actually comes with all of these options albeit with Strat style control cavity routing. I asked if they could omit the Strat style control cavity routing from the sequence, thereby allowing me to route whatever I want with my own tools. Also can’t be done.

How come? Is the request to omit a routing option just as labour intensive as asking to add non-standard feature?



 

Logrinn

Senior member
Messages
3,589
I can’t say why Warmoth won’t allow it, but couldn’t you get a Thinline instead? That model allows for a lot of modification.
You can get a hollow version (lightweight - check) and you can get it routed for humbuckers in the neck and bridge or Strat style pickup routes and you can get it with rear routed control cavity (LP/Tele dlx control layout - check) and actually even with the LP/Tele dlx upper horn switch.

Seems to check the boxes you want. Or I might be missing something?


 

ACWraith

New member
Messages
22
I've wondered about this myself. It seems even more of an issue with body blanks. Neck, pickup, and bridge routes are important enough to have Warmoth do professionally, but forcing the control route dictates the shape of the guitar... which is exactly what one wishes to avoid by purchasing a blank.

It seems like there's no stand-alone universal swimming pool in Warmoth's CNC models. Otherwise, I imagine they would offer it on more bodies. Instead, it's always connected to the control route.
 

Mx481james

Active member
Messages
69
Warmoth might do it for you , you have to call . They charge more for off menu choice's .
Some can be done and some can't . I've ordered off menu a few times with good results and one no-go. The no-go was a simple pick guard switch  route.
Still annoys me by the way lol. I asked them to route a blade switch in a jazz master pick guard . NO , absolutely won't do it. Normally an off menu pick guard route is an additional $15 per change. But a simple blade switch is NO it can't be done . I still order it and will have to cut it myself .
Remember we're buying production line products not really custom products from warmoth . Luckily they have a lot of options within that production line for us.
 

stratamania

Senior member
Messages
9,232
Mx481james said:
Warmoth might do it for you , you have to call . They charge more for off menu choice's .
Some can be done and some can't . I've ordered off menu a few times with good results and one no-go. The no-go was a simple pick guard switch  route.
Still annoys me by the way lol. I asked them to route a blade switch in a jazz master pick guard . NO , absolutely won't do it. Normally an off menu pick guard route is an additional $15 per change. But a simple blade switch is NO it can't be done . I still order it and will have to cut it myself .
Remember we're buying production line products not really custom products from warmoth . Luckily they have a lot of options within that production line for us.

From his post he has already been in touch with Warmoth.

We can speculate as to why or why not something is possible or not but it may require from the sounds of it a significant amount of CNC work to make a Tele Deluxe more like a Hybrid or the other way around. Essentially a new model. Existing models have the options they have which an operator can select prior to running a program which is a lot more straightforward than creating what amounts to a new model.

 

TaddleTele

New member
Messages
7
I think the point Mx481james made probably clarifies it for me, in as far as we’re kinda buying production models. I guess we’re pretty lucky, given the vast number of options and quality already provided.

That said, I’ve asked them to press stop on the routing panel/computer program when it comes to cutting the control cavity, not create a new routing code. I’m having a little trouble reconciling “no” for an answer.

I played a Thinline but there’s still a body edge cutting into my forearm. Great suggestion though.

This is supposed to be my 40th birthday gift with no compromises. I’m trying to piece together a guitar that addresses all of my wants and want-nots from my years of playing live and in the studio. Comfort, versatility and a look/shape that inspires me to play.

Job security is still somewhat of an uncertainty here in Oz with Covid border restrictions etc so while a Fender Custom Shop is out of the question a Partscaster gets the green light given I can stage the costs. Going to a Luthier is still an option, but I’ve been drooling such a long, long time on Warmoth. It’s unfinished business, haha.
 

PhilHill

Senior member
Messages
1,654
TaddleTele said:
I think the point Mx481james made probably clarifies it for me, in as far as we’re kinda buying production models. I guess we’re pretty lucky, given the vast number of options and quality already provided.

That said, I’ve asked them to press stop on the routing panel/computer program when it comes to cutting the control cavity, not create a new routing code. I’m having a little trouble reconciling “no” for an answer.

I played a Thinline but there’s still a body edge cutting into my forearm. Great suggestion though.

This is supposed to be my 40th birthday gift with no compromises. I’m trying to piece together a guitar that addresses all of my wants and want-nots from my years of playing live and in the studio. Comfort, versatility and a look/shape that inspires me to play.

Job security is still somewhat of an uncertainty here in Oz with Covid border restrictions etc so while a Fender Custom Shop is out of the question a Partscaster gets the green light given I can stage the costs. Going to a Luthier is still an option, but I’ve been drooling such a long, long time on Warmoth. It’s unfinished business, haha.
  I understand frustration. Let me ask you a question, and I mean no judgement by it, just a question. That would be, how much do you know about CNC programming? You may be asking for something that truly cannot be done in the manner you want. I don't know, I'm not a programmer and CNC was just being developed when I retired as a machiniost. But I do know that experience has taught me that few things are as simple as they might seem to the average person if they are not well versed in the subject............ :icon_thumright:
 

TaddleTele

New member
Messages
7
Yeah, absolutely buckley’s, and that’s why I signed up and posted here. Not to have a whinge but rather in the hope someone from production could explain it. No offence taken, you’re on point.
 

PhilHill

Senior member
Messages
1,654
TaddleTele said:
Yeah, absolutely buckley’s, and that’s why I signed up and posted here. Not to have a whinge but rather in the hope someone from production could explain it. No offence taken, you’re on point.

I can understand that. And like they say, you'll never know if you don't ask. It's possible that you caught them at an extremely busy moment and they didn't have the time to go into a lengthy explanation on the technical aspects of it. However, there should be some way of devising an explain of such things that wouldn't take an hour, but is more informative than just "no". Hard to tell from this side of the fence.
And I'm not sure how many of the people from production are members here, as it is not an "Official" Warmoth website. Perhaps there are some though.
Wish I could give you a better answer, I could tell you exactly how it could be done with manual machining methods. But they, like me, have been pretty much put out to pasture.... :(
 

stultzies9

Senior member
Messages
126
Regarding the Tele Hybrid, it's because the Strat control cavity section of the rout is part of the same CNC program as the pickup routing. It's the same reason you can't order a top routed Strat body with the pickups but not the control cavity. So once again, they'd have to go and reprogram the CNC to do it.

I admit, I'd love to see it as an option, but it sounds like right now it's just not a thing.
 

Sadie-f

Senior member
Messages
427
TaddleTele said:
I think the point Mx481james made probably clarifies it for me, in as far as we’re kinda buying production models. I guess we’re pretty lucky, given the vast number of options and quality already provided.

That said, I’ve asked them to press stop on the routing panel/computer program when it comes to cutting the control cavity, not create a new routing code. I’m having a little trouble reconciling “no” for an answer.

I played a Thinline but there’s still a body edge cutting into my forearm. Great suggestion though.

This is supposed to be my 40th birthday gift with no compromises. I’m trying to piece together a guitar that addresses all of my wants and want-nots from my years of playing live and in the studio. Comfort, versatility and a look/shape that inspires me to play.

Job security is still somewhat of an uncertainty here in Oz with Covid border restrictions etc so while a Fender Custom Shop is out of the question a Partscaster gets the green light given I can stage the costs. Going to a Luthier is still an option, but I’ve been drooling such a long, long time on Warmoth. It’s unfinished business, haha.

Sadly I do know a bit about the internals of CNC code generation, I'll get to that below :).

Here's an idea that I know doesn't fit into your " no compromise" plan, however would be a compromise that would be fairly hidden?

You could order a regular tele body, get it rear routed and then either fill the rear routing cavity with a plug or cover, or more simply, go to Drseb, a member here who makes rear-rout covers in various woods, screw or glue that in place. Depending on your finish plan and your own time / aesthetic, it could be an extra cover mostly only you see, or finished into the design and invisible.

I get that you also didn't want to do your own control routing, I expect if you don't have the capacity to do that, it's a show stopper.

I also had asked a couple of special requests that were no-go. One was to send me the cutouts from the body sides so I could retrieve use some of the unused lam top as the face of the peg head. Of course I was thinking their process would be what *I'd* do which would be to cut the profile shape in a bandsaw. Of course their production simply uses the router to cut away the entire shape from the raw blank.

TL;dr here's a couple reasons why it's not simple to change the router path, and that the job can't simply be stopped at the control routing section. NC paths are generated so as to minimize time on the machine, so the path will order the cuts so as to minimize path length. Also, the path is almost certainly done using multiple tools, and if they have a high end machine, tool changes are automated. There may or may not be a roughing pass using a serrated tool that cuts fast and can't make finish cuts etc.

Anyway, I disagree with the idea that these are "factory" products, e.g. there's a lot of by-had steps however the tools used dictate a lot of aspects and the use of NC routers that makes these affordable has limits also.
 

TaddleTele

New member
Messages
7
Cheers Sadie,

No, I do actually appreciate what you’re saying, and your suggestion, and your view on what W are creating for us.

I posed an alternative solution for critique in the thread below. I wonder if you would be happy to share your thoughts there?

https://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=33644.0
 

Sadie-f

Senior member
Messages
427
I saw your ideas there, I don't have a lot to add there, maybe if I have time later in the week.
 
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