Oil finishes
- Thread starter rubendlr
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Cagey
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They're a lotta work and they're not very durable. If Warmoth were to offer them, they'd probably cost $400-$500 or more due to all the labor involved to produce a fine finish, then they'd still have warranty issues up the wazoo because it wouldn't last long.
The only thing oil finishes have going for them is you can do them in the kitchen of an apartment (or just about anywhere, really). Don't need a lotta equipment or anything, and ventilation isn't a serious issue. The material is inexpensive and there's no over-spray to make a mess of things.
But, the base issue is that it's not a really good finish for a guitar. Even if you manage to produce a good result, guitars just get too much handling for such a soft finish to tolerate. On decorative pieces or guns or things like that where you don't handle them much, it's fine.
The only thing oil finishes have going for them is you can do them in the kitchen of an apartment (or just about anywhere, really). Don't need a lotta equipment or anything, and ventilation isn't a serious issue. The material is inexpensive and there's no over-spray to make a mess of things.
But, the base issue is that it's not a really good finish for a guitar. Even if you manage to produce a good result, guitars just get too much handling for such a soft finish to tolerate. On decorative pieces or guns or things like that where you don't handle them much, it's fine.
stratamania
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In terms of durability it's going to depend on what type of oil.
Something like a light natural oil might be fine on a salad bowl and not that durable for a guitar. But then again what are you doing with the guitar ?
Then let's look at gun oil or Tru-oil. That's not really an oil as it's an oil based hard finish that dries like a varnish. It's made for guns. Guns get taken out in all kinds of weathers, heat, cold, wind, rain on and on. So that stuff is durable. Depending on how many layers you apply, you can go from a wipe it on and off and get an almost non existent finish to building up layers and developing a deep shine. And if you do need to touch it up or clean it and touch it up down the road it's a fairly easy thing to do.
In summary, there are varying degrees of durability with "oil" finishes, some of which are technically no longer really an oil due to the drying properties, even though they contain oil. But are within relatively easy scope for folks to be able to do themselves.
So even if it doesn't get offered DIY with oil finishes whilst it takes time is achievable. And it doesn't stink like nitro etc. Although oils do have a smell of their own, it's reasonably ok, reminds me of cricket bats and so forth.
Let's look at it another way. How durable would nitro be on a gunstock ?
Something like a light natural oil might be fine on a salad bowl and not that durable for a guitar. But then again what are you doing with the guitar ?
Then let's look at gun oil or Tru-oil. That's not really an oil as it's an oil based hard finish that dries like a varnish. It's made for guns. Guns get taken out in all kinds of weathers, heat, cold, wind, rain on and on. So that stuff is durable. Depending on how many layers you apply, you can go from a wipe it on and off and get an almost non existent finish to building up layers and developing a deep shine. And if you do need to touch it up or clean it and touch it up down the road it's a fairly easy thing to do.
In summary, there are varying degrees of durability with "oil" finishes, some of which are technically no longer really an oil due to the drying properties, even though they contain oil. But are within relatively easy scope for folks to be able to do themselves.
So even if it doesn't get offered DIY with oil finishes whilst it takes time is achievable. And it doesn't stink like nitro etc. Although oils do have a smell of their own, it's reasonably ok, reminds me of cricket bats and so forth.
Let's look at it another way. How durable would nitro be on a gunstock ?
I call BS on all the reasons why Warmoth does NOT offer oil finishes. Tung oil the standard finish on bolt-on neck guitars and basses at Carvin and they only charge 60 bucks for it on their replacement necks. So why not get your neck from them then, you say? Well, for guitars, fine, I will. But Carvin's annoying issue is that on bass, they only have 20 fret necks on their Fender replacement necks. I wrote them, and they said they would do a 21 fret overhang for another 50 bucks, which I think is lame considering the 22 fret overhang is standard on the Strat replacement neck.
sixstringsamurai
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Cagey said:
You better believe it. :icon_thumright:
Not to mention Warmouth WILL NOT warranty any maple neck ( torrefied accepted) without a hard finish
I did my last build entirely with tru oil on the body, it has taken some really hard hits, has held up well but to get the depth I wanted I spent a month applying, curing and wet sanding, going so far as what ever the finest Micro mesh pad equivalent is, and final passed it with some high end silicone free Auto polish.
I used a special mix of oil based varnishes for the neck, following the same process as the body.
Labor intensive is the understatement of the decade.
TonyFlyingSquirrel
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Much of Warmoth's finish process is done in batch runs too.
The likeliness of getting enough orders to justify a specific run of finishes on enough bodies and/or necks would have to be significant to justify labor costs of setup for that special run, which would also bring "opportunity cost" into the discussion due to the fact that while this run is happening, the normal production run is set aside, delaying it further.
Simply put, it's likely not profitable as Warmoth can foresee it. All they have to do is run a report on how many requests have come in, either by phone or by email, and do a projection of what this would cost to do, and see if they can foresee any profitability in it.
If they don't smell money attached to the idea, then the idea is likely unprofitable, and therefore, not viable.
They are a business, and a business exists to turn a profit.
Once you remove the emotion from it, that's what it is.
The likeliness of getting enough orders to justify a specific run of finishes on enough bodies and/or necks would have to be significant to justify labor costs of setup for that special run, which would also bring "opportunity cost" into the discussion due to the fact that while this run is happening, the normal production run is set aside, delaying it further.
Simply put, it's likely not profitable as Warmoth can foresee it. All they have to do is run a report on how many requests have come in, either by phone or by email, and do a projection of what this would cost to do, and see if they can foresee any profitability in it.
If they don't smell money attached to the idea, then the idea is likely unprofitable, and therefore, not viable.
They are a business, and a business exists to turn a profit.
Once you remove the emotion from it, that's what it is.
S
swarfrat
Guest
As far as gun stocks being an example of oil finish durability nope.
In fact, that ties back into the reasons listed above. Substitute "barracks" for "apartment kitchen". Takes no equipment, gives idle soldiers something to do that instills familiarity and attachment to their weapon. Most wooden stocked firearms receive far more attention lavished on them than give back in hours of service.
In fact, that ties back into the reasons listed above. Substitute "barracks" for "apartment kitchen". Takes no equipment, gives idle soldiers something to do that instills familiarity and attachment to their weapon. Most wooden stocked firearms receive far more attention lavished on them than give back in hours of service.
stratamania
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swarfrat said:
Sorry but that's just not correct and somewhat disparaging of the military.
Most modern firearms used by the military have no wooden stocks. Any oil used is for moving parts and maintenance so the thing will work, not for finishing. Because in the field mud can get into things etc you need to be able to clean it.
Most good military people can take apart their personal weapon and put it back together blindfold.
Tru oil type finishes as used on shotguns and the like are durable and are classed as a hard finish.
