Offer LPS bodies with an f hole

[hannaugh]

I would like to see LPS bodies with an f hole option.  Please. 

 

[Jeremiah]

Yes please.

 

[reluctant-builder]

I've got a question.

Do we not see rear-routed bodies with two F-holes because it is useless to put one opposite a control cavity cover?

 

[Cagey]

On an electric guitar, they're useless, period. They're only there for aesthetic reasons, and to collect dust/hair/dandruff/sweat/picks/etc.

 

[bagman67]

On an electric guitar, they're useless, period. They're only there for aesthetic reasons, and to collect dust/hair/dandruff/sweat/picks/etc.

Where the hell else am I supposed to store my dust/hair/dandruff/sweat/picks/etc.?  Especially the etc.!

Srsly:  I like how they look, but I totally get that they don't do anything.

 

[Cagey]

Where the hell else am I supposed to store my dust/hair/dandruff/sweat/picks/etc.?  Especially the etc.!

That's what carpeting, upholstery, bed linens and nooks/crannys are for. Spider mites need to eat, too. Think of their children!

 

[reluctant-builder]

OK. So, since they do nothing ... how about two, for symmetry's sake.

 

[Cagey]

Yeah. If I ever lose my sight in one eye, I'm gonna want to lose it in the other as well, for symmetry's sake. Same with my hands. Lose the left one? Then to hell with the right one! <grin>

 

[Patrick from Davis]

On an electric guitar, they're useless, period. They're only there for aesthetic reasons, and to collect dust/hair/dandruff/sweat/picks/etc.

Really, you are certain that they do nothing?  This is not your opinion, this is fact?  Period?
Patrick

 

[reluctant-builder]

I know, on my Heritage, the F-holes make it a great guitar to play unplugged, if I don't want to disturb anyone with my amp.

 

[Cagey]

Really, you are certain that they do nothing?  This is not your opinion, this is fact?  Period?

I didn't say they did nothing. In fact, I listed out several things that they do, such as collect dust/hair/dandruff/sweat/picks/etc. As for whether that's a useful function or not, that's an opinion. I say not, but others may feel differently.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

Really, you are certain that they do nothing?  This is not your opinion, this is fact?  Period?

I didn't say they did nothing. In fact, I listed out several things that they do, such as collect dust/hair/dandruff/sweat/picks/etc. As for whether that's a useful function or not, that's an opinion. I say not, but others may feel differently.

So they are useless with respect to the sound?  I saw the unimportant stuff you listed, but you stated they are, "useless on an electric guitar," and that is fact?  They do absolutely nothing with respect to the sound, serve no purpose, have no use?
Patrick

 

[Cagey]

I imagine if there were microphones focused on the guitar they would hear something different than they would from a body that didn't have such holes. But, otherwise, no. Standard guitar pickups are inductive, and only pick up string vibrations.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

Seriously Cagey?  They wood must not matter either.  Or the shape of the instrument.  Or the neck.  Wow, nevermind then.  I believe that it is your opinion, and will treat it as such.
Patrick

 

[Cagey]

The wood makes a difference because different densities and construction techniques will cause it to absorb different frequencies from the strings. The pickups still only hear the strings, but their vibration has been affected so that effect is sensed as well. But, the vibration of the body? No. They don't hear that. You can, of course, but your ears are sensitive to acoustic changes, not electrical variations.

If you have an electric with F-holes in the body, record something with it, then cover the holes with duct tape and record the same thing again. See if you hear any difference on the recording. (spoiler alert: you won't). But, do the same thing while recording with a microphone. The difference will be obvious.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

Cagey, I don't want to get sucked into one of your, "know it all, been everywhere," threads.  But, the fact is, if you cut an F hole out of a 1/4 inch slab that sits on the face of the body, you have changed it structurally.  How much of a difference, who knows, it is impossible to run a test that accounts for everything. Your statement of fact is just not fact.  It becomes tiresome to argue with you because you'll bully some detail of the conversation, pat yourself on the back for winning, and leave with a passive aggressive "<grin>" comment.  But you cannot convince me it is fact with the arguments you provide, so at this point, I'll go read something else.
Patrick

 

[Cagey]

You asked what I thought, so I told you. If you don't like it, that's fine. I couldn't care less even if you paid me. But you don't have to attack me just because my explanations don't fit your preconceived notions of how things work.

 

[dNA]

The wood makes a difference because different densities and construction techniques will cause it to absorb different frequencies from the strings. The pickups still only hear the strings, but their vibration has been affected so that effect is sensed as well. But, the vibration of the body? No. They don't hear that. You can, of course, but your ears are sensitive to acoustic changes, not electrical variations.

If you have an electric with F-holes in the body, record something with it, then cover the holes with duct tape and record the same thing again. See if you hear any difference on the recording. (spoiler alert: you won't). But, do the same thing while recording with a microphone. The difference will be obvious.

I hate to side with Cagey (*grin*) but I'm gonna agree with him on this. I mean, it might not be fact... but I highly doubt anyone would be able to notice the tonal difference between a body of the same construction with or without the holes. The only difference I think there might be is in sensitivity to feedback, as those holes are a means of higher frequency sound vibrations entering the chambers of the body where they might be more resonant.
but even then, I just don't see it being likely. I do think the f-holes on a body with a solid block down the middle are really only have an aesthetic function.

but only in measurable terms. In literal terms, there's a difference in mass and in the reflection of sound waves inside the body of the guitar.

 

[NLD09]

The thing that I don't think many account for is the effect on the player. If you like the look of the guitar with F-holes, and it inspires you to play something completely different in a different way than you would've without F-holes then yes, the sound did change due to your different playing. Sure it wasn't necessarily a molecular, physical, vibrational, or even tonal at all of a change (though it could be), but it was a change.

That being said I agree Patrick 100% on this one (and most other threads as well.) I do feel that strings will, to a tiny extent, feel the change in vibration due to the new lack of wood from the F-holes. However, I agree with dNA as well. I also highly doubt that anyone, myself included, would be able to pick them apart accurately in a blind test.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

I never mentioned that the effect would be large.  I find it frustrating when something that could have an effect, small or not, is not checked, and one side is given as fact, or implied that way.  It is open for interpretation and should be treated as such.  Pickups suffer from microphonics, so they are not purely inductive.  The wood has natural tension in it and the F hole could change that, and the vibration of the body and blah blah blah.  It is not like you can build the guitar, check the tone, route the F hole and recheck the tone with any reproducibility.  Any one of these factors, "could," make a noticeable difference.  I firmly believe if the end user is happier with it, it will play/sound better to that person.  I just have trouble with the statement being absolute about something where there is quite a bit of leeway.
Patrick