Nut...

[stubhead]

These people claim to have fixed everything wrong with your guitar:

http://www.truetemperament.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=36

The reason all the guitarists you thought you liked actually sucked so bad is because they didn't have one of THESE:

Whew! I'm saved.....  :hello2:

(for what it's worth, the True Temperament people do start with Warmoth necks, then "fix" them with their own frets)

 

[kreig]

aw yes, the microtonal neck, that's more the answer. Y/N?

 

[-FenderMan-]

i hate floyds

but believe it or not, i'm listening, too

is it possible to do that? how do you "hate floyds"? :help:

 

[kreig]

last edit -
per Earvana " a typical guitar is +4 cents sharp/-2 cents flat . . .
and wiki-The just noticeable difference for this unit is about 6 cents. :dontknow:

 

[capt hook]

Kreig..
what type of tuner did you use in your experiment? If it wasn't a Peterson strobe tuner, you may not perceive any difference. You should listen to Funky Phil.. he knows what he's talking about and I agree 100% with him. I personally can tell 2- to 3 cents diference easily.. especially if you have a strobe tuner "in line" and watching while you are playing live. I believe you have to "train" your ears, as well as your fingers. As I have said before, some people just get "used to" hearing the out of tune cords and think it is perfectly fine. I know of several guitar players in bands personally that think they play great and "in tune" and other people have commented to me that these players "just don't have an ear for correct tone". All I am saying is you may think your in tune, but others may be able to tell the difference, and if you play for an audience you don't want them to notice you are out of tune. The compensated nut is AS important, if not MORE important than intonation at the bridge. Nut compensation makes for equal amount of cents compensation all the way up the neck, whereas bridge compensation has least effect at the nut and most effect at the 12th and up frets. Hope this helps.

 

[-FenderMan-]

locking tuners are not equivalent to a locking nut. they won't keep the guitar in tune as well as a locking nut.

If you have an LSR and staggered locking tuners (no string trees), tuning stability is damn near a locknut.

Yup, until you dive bomb your strings out of their nut slots.

ya I'm no expert but i think that would throw you a little out of tune

 

[kboman]

locking tuners are not equivalent to a locking nut. they won't keep the guitar in tune as well as a locking nut.

If you have an LSR and staggered locking tuners (no string trees), tuning stability is damn near a locknut.

Yup, until you dive bomb your strings out of their nut slots.

ya I'm no expert but i think that would throw you a little out of tune

rofl!

Regarding compensation etc - I've become more and more sensitive to the bad intonation on almost all guitars. Several times in music stores I've tuned up a guitar only to immediately put it down after having strummed a couple of chords. At times songs on radio/tv makes me cringe pretty badly too - ever heard Mick Ronson's horribly out-of-tune B-string on "Ziggy Stardust"?

I have basically stopped playing open chords myself too. It just hurts too much!

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

These people claim to have fixed everything wrong with your guitar:

http://www.truetemperament.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=36

The reason all the guitarists you thought you liked actually sucked so bad is because they didn't have one of THESE:

Whew! I'm saved.....  :hello2:

(for what it's worth, the True Temperament people do start with Warmoth necks, then "fix" them with their own frets)

They were kind enough to send us a reference neck for us to put on one our office bodies.  As some of you may know, they order necks from us in bulk unslotted, as they indicate on their website.  These are quite an interesting animal.

 

[mayfly]

These people claim to have fixed everything wrong with your guitar:

http://www.truetemperament.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=36

The reason all the guitarists you thought you liked actually sucked so bad is because they didn't have one of THESE:

Whew! I'm saved.....  :hello2:

(for what it's worth, the True Temperament people do start with Warmoth necks, then "fix" them with their own frets)

They were kind enough to send us a reference neck for us to put on one our office bodies.  As some of you may know, they order necks from us in bulk unslotted, as they indicate on their website.  These are quite an interesting animal.

Just don't try to play one stoned. 

 

[RadsRock]

Just don't try to play one stoned. 

Might be better... "HEY, when I look at it like this, the frets are straight again!"  :confused4:

For someone without a lot of in depth technical knowledge on the subject, this is an interesting conversation.  I need to learn more.  Like, why the big change from G to B?  Because of wound vs unwound strings?  The B is always what gives me grief, esp on acoustic (despite a compensated saddle).

 

[rightintheface]

i've gotta honestly say that i used to think my sg (normal nut) sounded pretty sweet and intune.
now, when i compare it to my warmoth tele (which has an earvana nut), i can definitely tell the difference. it's not a HUGE difference, but i've got to the point now where i simply don't like playing my sg because of the tuning issues. it's not like an "oh my god this is so totally extreme" tuning problem, but it's just irritating.

it's like when someone points out a blooper in a movie or a song or whatever. you may not have noticed it before, but once you ARE aware of it, you can't stop staring at it  :tard:
i'll be sticking with the earvanas on all my builds i think. crappy materials aside (my A string is a little bit "sitar-ry"), i think it's helped the overall intonation alot.


my two cents

 

[capt hook]

rightintheface
The reason for your sitarie sound is the nut is not filed correctly. Should be very close to the string dia size and filed at the correct angle. I have had this happen on many compensated nuts I have done (customized) and corrected with slight filing modifications. Also the nut MUST be attached to the neck firmly!
Capt hook

 

[AToE]

I'm planning my first warmoth build right now, and the neck is going straight to the guys that do this at True Temperament. Absolute genius, I played one at the NAMM show this year, I was sold instantly. The only problem is that if I drop D tune, my low and high D will never be in tune as I go up the neck. So I'll stick to the usual intervals between strings, or I'll adjust my chording in drop D... oh well. :toothy10:

Anyone who doesn't know why they do this should read about the drawbacks of equal temperament, and then read about how accurately a fretted instrument can even pull off that already out of tune temperament. We've just grown up only ever hearing out of tune instruments, so we don't know what we're missing. :icon_thumright:

 

[stubhead]

If you ever want to start an (internet) fight that'll last for weeks, go over to the steel guitar forum and ask, all innocent-like, "Is just intonation BETTER than equal-tempered tuning?" The problem being, that steel guitars, singers, violins etc. can play in just or "natural" intonation, which does sound sweeter & more right to the human ear - but all the rest of the band is out of tune! It's pretty much the job of a symphony conductor to figure out when then the orchestra can stay in a natural harmonic tuning when they're playing in one key, and when they have to subtly warp over to tempered tuning because they're changing keys a lot. (Otherwise, he just gets paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to wave that stick around :toothy12 There's a reason that pianos and fretted things aren't a normal part of orchestras.... and why they hate fat old rock stars who pay them money to compromise their ideals....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN5FAcd2sbM

(what better to compromise your ideals for? :icon_scratch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7looOVZoLo&feature=related

 

[AToE]

Yes, I can imagine how that argument might go on for some time! Seems like there has been a constant struggle between versatility and accuracy, and in the last couple hundred years accuracy lost. To be fair, pianists can tune to just intonation, they're just screwed if they have to change keys. It's really just us fretted folks that are totally hopeless (for now).

For anyone interested, those guys at True Temperament also have a formula with less extreme bends in the frets that simply allows for more accurate equal temperament on a guitar, so no weird intervals, just better tuning within 12-TET.

 

[T.L.]

I hate to say it, bit I think the spoof sounded better than the original.  Yngwie is great and all, but his guitar sounded out-of-place with the orchestra, and thin and screechy...

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

locking tuners are not equivalent to a locking nut. they won't keep the guitar in tune as well as a locking nut.

It depends on the setup.  We have a soloist body with a strat neck, corian nut, Schaller mini locking tuners, Floyd bridge.  We beat & bash it all the time & it stays in tune as good as any locking nut does.  It dive bombs to total slack, and pulls up nearly a 5th on the G.  A Straight string path over the nut is vital though, along with a professional setup & break-in.

 

[Superlizard]

I used to think the Earvana thing was a cool idea, until I reminded myself that Jimmy and Jimi and Jeff, et al never needed one and they
sold lots of albums; some platinum status even.

 

[Alfang]

I just installed an Earvana on my latest build, it's a retrofit. I am SOLD bigtime, I know a lot of great players never used it, because they didnt have it available.  It's also not a big advantage when soloing, but when playen chords or any combination of your G and B string together, it's a noticable difference.

That's my opinion, and it's from experience

 

[AToE]

I just installed an Earvana on my latest build, it's a retrofit. I am SOLD bigtime, I know a lot of great players never used it, because they didnt have it available.  It's also not a big advantage when soloing, but when playen chords or any combination of your G and B string together, it's a noticable difference.

That's my opinion, and it's from experience

Just imagine that same effect, but on fretted notes as well as open - I thought the True Temperament thing was a bit out there until I played one. Well worth shipping a neck to Sweden, paying them to fret it, and having it sent all the way back! I wish I wasn't about to move or I'd make the buy right now. I'll be sure to post lots of pics and some soundclips once it's all finally in my hands.