nut width questions

[vtpcnk]

i checked the measurements of the actual nut width as marked in the neck pocket of my three warmoth necks : strat, jm and tele.

by feel the jm is the thinnest, the tele comes next and then the strat.

the actual nut width markings in the neck pockets by warmoth were :

1. strat : 1.686
2. tele : 1.687
3. jm : 1.682

the strat nut width claims to be smaller than the tele nut width which is contrary to the feel.

so i too a vernier caliper and measured the width of the neck right below the nut.

on the caliper i got a good grip of the strat neck/fretboard right below the nut - neither tight nor loose. with that measure the caliper gripped the strat neck so that it cannot move either way without some level of resistance.

but if i use the same measure on the caliper on the tele and jm necks at the same point right below the nut, it just slides in. so the strat neck is obviously wider than the tele and the jm.

so i am not sure if i understand the concept of nut width at all.

i really need to know how to order a neck of a width favorable to me. as i cannot order another neck from warmoth and have the same issue again.

appreciate any clarifications/suggestions/insights.

 

[Dan025]

:icon_scratch:
you never said what you want in comparison to those

also you do realize that all of your numbers are within .005 of each other. that is like 2 sheets of paper! literally ask anyone. you cant always expect wood to be within that small a tolerence if you make hundreds of something and expose them all to different atmospheric conditions. the paint is almost that thick.
i don't know if you want thinner or thicker but the "feel" you mention is likely do to how the guitar is held and/or back contour, frets, strings, tunnings, ect...

you don't mention your preferance or phrase a specific question and i don't know what issue you are reffering to or know of any issue described in your post at all so i'm not really sure if i answered anything here but i hope it helps, i guess.

 

[bpmorton777]

taller frets = thicker/ wider neck feel

Brian

 

[vtpcnk]

sorry if i was not being clear.

i have 3 warmoth necks. a tele maple/pau ferro one. a jazzmaster maple/braz rosewood one. a strat maple/maple one.

all three are conversion necks with the same specs - profile, nut width, 6150 frets etc.

but the maple/maple one is noticably thicker and chunkier than the other two.

though warmoth's marking of the actual nut width in the heel claims that the strat neck is thinner than the tele neck, but in actuality it is not so.

that is confirmed by using the vernier caliper.

and in my opinion going by feel and measurement, my strat neck is wider and thicker than the other two.

it is in this context i have questions about what nut width stands for and how i can get a neck similar to my slimmer tele/jm ones. this is especially important as i dont want to order another neck from warmoth and land up with another similar chunkier neck.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

I'm calling those the same.  Seriously, deviations in the thousandths decimal place for an item made from wood that is sanded and has a finish.  If you ordered an 1 5/8" and this is what was sent, that would be one thing, but 1 11/16" is 1.6875".  If you hypothetically went to court, you wouldn't have case because any reasonable person would say that is an acceptable tolerance.

 

[tfarny]

What you have done here is confirm that the Warmoth tolerances are extremely good and the product is very consistent. Whatever you are feeling as a difference is definitely not the nut width - as stated, .005 is a piece of paper, .001 is probably less than a human hair. If you are unsatisfied because the nut widths are different by the thickness of a human hair, you will never be a satisfied customer and should give up now. Measure the other neck dimensions and report back.

 

[vtpcnk]

hello! aren't you guys getting it?

i am saying that the marked nut width in the heel of my strat neck is WRONG. it is simply not right.

the strat nut width is above 1 11/16. it is actually almost 1 12/16.

 

[ByteFrenzy]

We must have missed where you suddenly gained the ability to do actual measurements of the nut width instead of just doing some sort of comparison between your three necks, as described in your first post in this thread. Exactly how wide is that neck at the nut, and with what precision was that measurement made? I very seriously doubt that the numbers on the heel pocket are contractually binding and at best they represent a value measured at completion of the neck. Finishing, nut installation etc. changes the actual width of the neck at the nut with respect to that number.

 

[drewfx]

Perhaps because the maple/maple one is the only one with a finished fingerboard? W probably measures before finishing.

drewfx

 

[Finch]

hello! aren't you guys getting it?

i am saying that the marked nut width in the heel of my strat neck is WRONG. it is simply not right.

the strat nut width is above 1 11/16. it is actually almost 1 12/16.

we get it, your being anal about a 1/16th of an inch.... Anyone whos ever done cabinetry or carpentry work will tell you that 1/16th off is as good as perfect.

 

[big bob]

you can always sand the neck down to your exact specks. I sanded the contour to my liking when I did the angled strat neck, went from standard thin to big bob thin.  :cool01:

 

[blue313]

hello! aren't you guys getting it?

i am saying that the marked nut width in the heel of my strat neck is WRONG. it is simply not right.

the strat nut width is above 1 11/16. it is actually almost 1 12/16.

The only way to accurately measure nut width is to measure across the nut slot, with no nut installed. 

I dont think it's marked wrong, it's just had some hand work done after the measurement was taken.

1 10/16 (1-5/8)      = 1.6250
1 11/16  (1-11/16)  = 1.6875
1 12/16 (1-3/4)      = 1.7500

 

[Dan025]

hello! aren't you guys getting it?

i am saying that the marked nut width in the heel of my strat neck is WRONG. it is simply not right.

the strat nut width is above 1 11/16. it is actually almost 1 12/16.

we get it, your being anal about a 1/16th of an inch.... Anyone whos ever done cabinetry or carpentry work will tell you that 1/16th off is as good as perfect.

1/16 is huge. but he is being anal about 1/200"

 

[Wyliee]

Perhaps because the maple/maple one is the only one with a finished fingerboard? W probably measures before finishing.

drewfx

This is correct.  The measurement is taken before the finish (if any) is applied.  This would account for any +/- .005 discrepancy.  Bear in mind wood will also expand/contract with humidity changes.  How long have you had the necks and what is the comparative humidity where you live versus Washington state at the time the neck was measured?  There are too many variables here to accurately claim Warmoth's numbers are wrong.

 

[Dan025]

as you states warmoths mesurments not your own are within .005 and as you claim there smallest is actually the largest. as i stated the finnish can meet or exceed .005" also the wood can swell that much and more. either you have the most sensitive hands in the world or something else is leading your brain to interperate that it is thicker. it may even be in a subtle difference in the way you hold the guitar. if you are afraid of a thicker neck get out some sandpaper and get it right.

if you feel that the strat neck is out of spec then take a close up hi-res photo of the caliper's vernier scale and i can tell you what the actual measurement is assuming that the photo is clear enough.
also measure the neck thickness next to the nut or just behind the first fret on all three necks

 

[vtpcnk]

>>Perhaps because the maple/maple one is the only one with a finished fingerboard? W probably measures before finishing.

>This is correct.  The measurement is taken before the finish (if any) is applied.  

so are you saying that fretboard finish can add 1/16" to a neck? then to get a 1 11/16 on a maple/maple neck it is better to order a 1 5/8?

>This would account for any +/- .005 discrepancy.  

1 11/16 - 1 12/16 amounts to .062.

that is not a .005 discrepancy. if you are selling nut widths 1 5/8 and 1 11/16, then a neck 1/8 more than specified jumps into another category totally.

there was a recent discussion on this forum about how even minute differences in the thickness of a neck can affect playing especially for those with smaller hands. 1/8 of an inch can make a real huge difference in the playability of a neck. there is a reason why the most popular nut widths (1 5/8, 1 11/16 etc) have only 1/8 of an inch in difference, which has its own significance.

>Bear in mind wood will also expand/contract with humidity changes.  How long have you had the necks and what is the comparative humidity >where you live versus Washington state at the time the neck was measured?  

when i bought this neck and the other necks i lived in new york. i had those necks for atleast a year out there and i have made these observations earlier at that time as well on this forum. the first neck i bought was the maple/maple one -but i didn't have a basis to compare and took it for what it was. but when i bought the jazzmaster neck i immediately noticed the difference in thickness. and then i bought the tele neck which confirmed my observations and i had brought them out on this forum itself multiple times. so my observations have little to do with time or place. what i am talking about the neck has always been so.

>There are too many variables here to accurately claim Warmoth's numbers are wrong.

these variables are what i am trying to ascertain/confirm so that atleast my next order can give me something favorable to my preferences.

 

[Wyliee]

there was a recent discussion on this forum about how even minute differences in the thickness of a neck can affect playing especially for those with smaller hands. 1/8 of an inch can make a real huge difference in the playability of a neck. there is a reason why the most popular nut widths (1 5/8, 1 11/16 etc) have only 1/8 of an inch in difference, which has its own significance.

these variables are what i am trying to ascertain/confirm so that atleast my next order can give me something favorable to my preferences.

So what is your definition of minute differences?  A few ten thousandths?  I don't buy the claim that little of difference impacts playability.  I seriously doubt Eric Clapton (or whoever) wouldn't be able to play if his guitar neck was minutely different from another guitar.  Most pros have more than one guitar, perhaps dozens of different makes and models, and it doesn't seem to affect them adversely.  After almost 5 years at Warmoth, I've probably talked to thousands of guitarists and most of them have no clue of the specs of their guitars.  And that includes some big names.  They pick one up and play it.  They're more concerned with making music than tweaking their guitars.

So what are your preferences?  If you want to specify a neck with dimensions down to the 0.001, plan to spend some big money to get your neck scanned and/or someone to spend a painstaking about of time sanding and shaping. 

 

[Dan025]

i'm sorry but i did not see you say that the difference was 1/16" between your necks
if you can confirm that it is even .020" over what appears on the order or what warmoths has stamped in then i would contact warmoth.

 

[Dan025]

hello! aren't you guys getting it?

i am saying that the marked nut width in the heel of my strat neck is WRONG. it is simply not right.

the strat nut width is above 1 11/16. it is actually almost 1 12/16.

wylee i missed this one too but this is what he is saying

 

[vtpcnk]

1/8th of an inch is NOT microscopic. you can clearly see it on a ruler/tape measure.

i only brought in the vernier caliper as additional evidence - especially in the light of warmoth's nut width markings on the heel of my strat neck.

if my nut width is more towards 1 12/16 than 1 11/16, i do not think that is a minute difference especially in terms of playability.

if such a difference didn't matter i do not think the standard nut widths of 1 5/8 or 1 11/16, would have established itself in the guitar industry.

there is no point bringing in eric clapton or those unknown players who are satisfied with their instruments. who know what dynamics are involved in such? maybe they have big hands where such differences do not make a difference. maybe they just adapt to it. or more likely fender will take the extra effort to make sure that eric clapton does get the exact nut width he desires on his strats. but there is little point speculating about such unknowns.

but the point is nut width dynamics are important and significant. and it doesn't look good for a company with a long standing reputation as warmoth to try to negate it. warmoth should take the effort to deliver the goods to the specifications it itself sets.

i am myself a satisfied warmoth customer except for this one issue. but a shortcoming is a shortcoming which should be pointed out so that it can be corrected. and that can only make warmoth a better company with more satisfied customers.

btw i measured the nut widths of my two gibson LPs - they are bang on 1 11/16. my japanese washburn hb 35 is exactly 1 5/8.