Non-Figured carved tops

[yddeds]

What happened to all the non figured tops when the DL top thing came in?

 

[Cagey]

I'm not sure what a "DL top thing" is, but I suspect most people who want a carved top want something interesting for the money, which for some reason is substantial from Warmoth, so figured woods are the way to go. I have several carved tops with solid colors on them, so they certainly make them. If that's what you're interested in you may have to custom order something. The Showcase pieces are built to statistical popularity, except for the occasional return, so all you'll see is what everybody else is ordering.

 

[Kostas]

The DL thing started when thick tops become too rare or too expensive to sell. I'm guessing that's why the company has started to make the carved tops less carved... They started with the Telecaster and now with the Soloist. It's sad because carved tops look great.

Non-figured tops will have the same price no matter how figured or non figured there are. They made that clear when people who wanted a solid color asked for non-figured tops so they can pay less money. It seems there is a base price and it only goes higher, not lower.

 

[yddeds]

I'm not sure what a "DL top thing" is, but I suspect most people who want a carved top want something interesting for the money, which for some reason is substantial from Warmoth, so figured woods are the way to go. I have several carved tops with solid colors on them, so they certainly make them. If that's what you're interested in you may have to custom order something. The Showcase pieces are built to statistical popularity, except for the occasional return, so all you'll see is what everybody else is ordering.

If you look at any of the builders for the carved top guitars they've changes the tops so its now a solid block of wood with a venier of whatever figured wood but now you cant get them as a plain top and they wont let you put solid finishes on them tops

 

[Cagey]

Ok. Maybe I'm just dense, but I still don't know what a "DL top" is. I'm sure it's a common acronym, but it escapes me.

 

[Fat Pete]

it's just a 'Double Laminate'. 1/8" figured wood vacuum-pressed and glued - or however they manage it - over a plainer, or sometimes different species,  carved piece. Have a look at the builder with a Mooncaster or Regal.

 

[Cagey]

Thanks. That makes sense.

 

[Fat Pete]

Just messing with the builder and noticed that now DL tops are standard on all the carve-tops (except Soloists for now), binding is required and is factored into the price. Seems a shame not to have the option of masked binding - or no binding at all - but it makes the price seem more reasonable. $430.00 for an unfinished solid mahogany/maple Regal is actually less than a Strat of the same spec - if you include a contoured heel.

Back to the OP, although the builder doesn't allow opaque finishes on the DL tops as they're all 'fancy', I'd expect/hope that Warmoth would paint them however you want if you asked them. As Kostas points out, it wouldn't be any cheaper - but the plain tops weren't cheaper before when they were all 'SL'.

Personally I find it a bit annoying that you can't choose whatever finish you like in the builder regardless of the wood choice. If I want to pay $400 extra for a UC quilt top and then cover it in apricot flake then I should be able to...

 

[Cagey]

Personally I find it a bit annoying that you can't choose whatever finish you like in the builder regardless of the wood choice. If I want to pay $400 extra for a UC quilt top and then cover it in apricot flake then I should be able to...

Mmmm... apricot flake...​

I know what you mean. They do the same thing with neck finishes. According to the builder, you can have any color you want, as long as it's clear or tinted orange. But, it costs no more to get colored finishes. You just have to jump through some hoops to get it.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

The joys of running a business, no good deed goes unpunished. 

I know nothing of the programming of the online builders, but it seems each option has to be individually added with lines of code, and of course paying someone to do so at a cost that may never pay for itself because it's a less chosen, obscure option.

In other words, the builders were meant to be a tool to make it easier for the custoner, but they seem to draw a lot of attention for what they don't do.

As always, a phone call or email could get an answer to q question, even if it's the answer one doesn't want.

 

[Cagey]

As always, a phone call or email could get an answer to q question, even if it's the answer one doesn't want.

And as I've pointed out a number of times, nobody there wants to lean back and eat your day. The sales guys answer the phone directly - no receptionist or automated routing system to fight with - and it's pretty rare that they don't have an immediate answer. Buncha knowledgeable guys who not only know guitars, they know their company's business policies, practices and capabilities. Even if you're calling from Europe, it's unlikely the call will cost much because you'll be on and off pretty quickly. Plus, it's an authoritive answer, not the guess or opinion of some dingbat like me. I've called there dozens of times, and I don't think I've ever spent more than 2 minutes on the phone.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

I'm paraphrasing from memory, but they tend not to do plain maple pieces with no figuring because they get so few requests for it.  To do so almost means more time finding it, which translates to higher bottom line price, which puts the cost similar to a nicer piece.  But I agree, it's a sin to solid color a a striking piece. 

If you wanted the look of plain maple like the older Gibsons, and since it's a veneer, alder can pass.

 

[Jumble Jumble]

The joys of running a business, no good deed goes unpunished. 

I know nothing of the programming of the online builders, but it seems each option has to be individually added with lines of code, and of course paying someone to do so at a cost that may never pay for itself because it's a less chosen, obscure option.

If each option, including "solid colour for necks" or whatever, does have to be individually added with lines of code, then the developers of the website are either:

1) not very good at development
2) lazy
3) very good at creating expensive future work for themselves

Let's say Warmoth gets a new paint colour in. That should be nothing to add to the builders. If it requires actual code to be written, that's a huge fail right there.

 

[Cagey]

Not all code is written with maintenance in mind. Lord knows I've pulled out a lotta hair over that kind of crap. Then, there's the attitude of the owners. You can see examples of that in some pretty substantial companies. Radeon (AMD) is a good example, as is Creative Music. Design high-end hardware, then write shit for drivers so the stuff barely works. You can tell the owners just look at software as a necessary evil rather than the essential component it is, so they spend as little time/money on it as is possible. End up with some cobbled-together spaghetti code compiled at 2am on a Mountain Dew buzz that'll only run on very specific computer setups.

"Does it light up?"
"Well... yeah...
"Ship it! Put wheels on it! Get it outa here! Bill it!"

 

[Jumble Jumble]

Yeah, what you're describing is bad development, so I guess we agree.  ccasion14:

If I wrote the kind of code we're postulating makes up the W website, my contract would likely not be renewed. Maybe if I was in my early 20s I'd get away with it (and earn a third of the salary), but at this point in my career, nuh-uh. Not good enough.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Look at their competition's websites.  They are head and shoulders better than USACG and Carvin's custom builder stuff.  Just those 2, I can get no feel for what they actually do.  In that sense, if Warmoth's ain't broke, why fix it?  I know initiallly, they wanted to extend the builders, visually, to the rest of the body styles like they do with the Strats and Teles.  Compound that with the fact they lost the Gibson shapes, had to come up with comparable replacements, as well as introduce new body shapes like the Mooncaster...and they never skipped a beat with the rest of their standing workload....and a forum to maintain the peace on.  They are a small company, mind you.  Lesser requested options like painted necks and solid colors on carved tops aren't on the top of their list, especially when you can call and get them.

 

[bagman67]

I'm inclined to cut Warmoth some slack on this one, too.  They are in the greater Seattle area which suggests some competent development talent should be nearby - but then consider that Puyallup is to Seattle as, say, Swindon is to London, or Lancaster is to Los Angeles, culturally.  Although obviously for web development you need not necessarily rely on onsite talent - I'd actually be surprised if I were to learn the main web dev work is done by Warmoth employees.  But Warmoth still sets priorities, and their priorities are moving the largest number of parts possible with the best margins they can manage while maintainig quality and customer satisfaction.  Obviously we regular forumites constitute a particularly vocal and loyal portion of the customer base, but we're not a large portion of that customer base by the most generous of estimates.  Our suggestions can often be profitably ignored.


Peace,


Bagman

 

[Cagey]

Look at their competition's websites.  They are head and shoulders better than USACG and Carvin's custom builder stuff.  Just those 2, I can get no feel for what they actually do.  In that sense, if Warmoth's ain't broke, why fix it?

You're absolutely right about that - those sites bite the root. I don't know how they sell anything. But, comparing your site to the worst of the lot is no basis or excuse to rest on one's laurels. If it's deficient, it's deficient. Fix it. Don't let your competition get real before you do, or you'll start losing share.

 

[Cagey]

Obviously we regular forumites constitute a particularly vocal and loyal portion of the customer base, but we're not a large portion of that customer base by the most generous of estimates.  Our suggestions can often be profitably ignored.

Also a good point. But, being front-facing is worth a lot. A friend of mine who worked as an admin for a major publisher said their numbers showed only about 10% of message board readers were writers/contributors. The number of "lurkers" was massive (10s of thousands), and looked to be about 1% of their customer base. So, you're really on stage when you talk on some message boards.

Think about news anchors. Millions of people watch/listen to them. Who didn't know Walter Cronkite? They probably got a couple thousand letters a week, but that's a drop in the bucket relative to how many paid attention and made their minds up about things. There's something to be said about the "bully pulpit".

 

[drewfx]

It's pretty clear to me that all the web site stuff is a part time thing that only gets worked on when someone has time for it.