Noise Noise Noise!!!!

[mullyman]

Guys, I have never been one to use effects throughout my almost 30 years of playing. I've always played through high gain amps like a 5150II or a Mesa so I've never felt the need for pedals. Lately though I've been curious and I've done a bit of shopping over the last year or so. The only things I really wanted was a decent delay and chorus. Since I like the looks and sizes of the MXR line of pedals I went there first and was pleasantly surprised that I found things I liked right off the bat. I have a Carbon Copy and a Black Label Chorus. I also bought an EVH phaser for the fun of it.

For the past 2 months I've been gearing up for my first show in over 2 years. Going into the studio and practicing I noticed straight away that there was a terrible hiss coming from my amp. As you may recall I just recently bought a Mesa Boogie Mini Rectifier. Anyway, order of pedals is this, Guitar, Chorus, Delay, Phaser, amp. The order doesn't really matter though as I've tried moving them around and nothing changes. A horrible hiss is coming from my amp when I'm running through my pedals (guitar volume off). This makes me feel that the word "True Bypass" that they say exists in their pedals doesn't really exist because that hiss is there whether they are on or off.

The other guitarist in my band says that the impedance of these pedals doesn't match with the amp. WTF? Again, I've never really used effects and am ignorant, but I thought MXR was a high quality pedal made to be used with these types of amps.

Any information would be greatly appreciated. I'll get rid of them and switch to a tc Electronics rack unit if it comes down to it.
MULLY

 

[bagman67]

Are you running the pedals straight into the instrument input on the amp, are are you in an effects loop? 

 

[mullyman]

Straight into the amp. The other guitar player told me not to use the effects loop with these pedals.
MULLY

 

[Cagey]

It sounds like a pedal thing, although it may just be one of the pedals. It could also be a pedal. You need to eliminate some variables. Set up the amp, and with nothing plugged in, but the settings where you normally use the thing, does it hiss? If yes, you've got an amp or environment problem.

From here forward, I'm not talking about turning things on or off, I'm talking about physically putting them in the signal chain.

Plug the guitar straight into the amp. Hiss or no?

If no, add one pedal. Hiss or no?

If no, change pedals. Hiss or no?

If no, change pedals. Hiss or no?

If no, add a pedal. Hiss or no?

If no, add a pedal. Hiss or no?

If no, shut up and play yer guitar!

If yes anywhere along the way, you know what's causing the problem and you can proceed from there.

It's also possible that each device will hiss a little bit, but not enough to be annoying. However, running them in series can exacerbate the problem.

Another thing that can happen is exaggeration of a S/N ratio due to gain staging. Usually, every device has an output level adjust. Stacking those in series can make for some tricky balance adjustments between devices to keep from blasting a following device, or forcing a following device to need more gain.

 

[Cagey]

I should add that unless you spend a lotta money, most pedals do add a certain amount of noise, some add more than others, and the more pedals you have the more it adds up. That's a good reason to put a gate-type unit at the end of a chain. But, if the noise level is too high, even that might not be satisfying as you'll have to set the threshold so high you'll hear it kicking on and off. Some of them are better at that than others, so some testing is in order. Back when I played noisy things, I found the Rocktron "Hush" units to be pretty effective.

They seem to be about $80 just about everywhere.

 

[stubhead]

Cagey's on it, but another thing. Are you by any chance running one of the class D power-all converters like the 1 Spot,Godlyke, there's are a few others. It comes with a little wiring harness that lets you run up to 5 pedals. The problem is (noticeably absent from their ads) that the pedals can "talk" to each other through the extension harness. And it's not pleasant talk. Now, you can try to find the original power supply for each one, or try the "almost" foolproof exigency of putting batteries in each one. Stompers can also talk THROUGH THE POWER STRIP... there a few, unfortunate, reasons why professionals use $400 power supplies.... :sad1: :sad1: :sad1:

And another thing. You can also try moving the strip with the power supplies as far away as possible from where you're playing. You didn't mention whether the noise got better or worse depending where you're standing, or if you can move the guitar around and the noise gets better or worse. Power supplies are notorious for kicking out some fuzz, as are computer monitors! If you've always had your stuff in the same place, pointing in the same way, try moving things around (in a diagnostic way). I mean, something there is radiating and something is picking it up.

A lot of houses and even more bars have ridiculously craptastic wiring that is it's own source of noise - fluorescent beer signs, and no the owner won/t turn them off during your sets. Hello, humbuckers! And as a matter of course I install new batteries in everything I'm using, if I know the place is wired with 20 $2.69 WalMart extension cords all plugged into each other.

 

[mayfly]

Quick question:  is the noise hiss or hum?

Hum:  ground loop around the pedal cables and pedal power supply.

Hiss: accumulated gain/shot/thermal noise in the signal path.

If its hiss, try substituting the pedals as outlined above. If its hum, you've got a ground loop to sort out.

 

[SixString]

I've noticed a similar problem (slight hissing noise) with my set up.  I just chalked it up to the 1-spot charger I'm currently using.  However now I'm going to investigate everything per the comments mentioned above....good info.

 

[Death by Uberschall]

/End thread

 

[mullyman]

Reading through this allows me to add more info to the situation, things I hadn't thought to tell you guys.

1. The first time I noticed the hissing noise was at the studio. I had my mini recti against the wall and my pedal board about 3-4 feet away, off to the left. My pedal board the Gator Pedal Tote http://www.gatorcases.com/p/16108-1578/gpt-black

2. There is no hiss if I plug my guitar directly into the amp without the pedals.

3. Second happening was this past Sunday. We had a gig and as soon as I set up, my amp was set up back to the left of the bass amp (looking at the stage) and my pedal board was front center as I am the rhythm guitar/vocalist. I'd say the pedals were about 20 feet away from the amp. As soon as I got set up the bassist said "that's really noisy" so, instead of ruining the night with that hissing sound while I wasn't playing, I ditched the pedals altogether and went dry.

I will try taking them one at a time and building up until I find which pedal or which combination is causing this.

Thanks for the advice, guys.
MULLY

 

[thebutcher85]

I've had similar noise/hiss problems, I ended up getting the voodoo power supply, and bought the Mogami patch cables and guitar cables (the Mogami gold patch ones, and the platinum guitar cables) they're pricey for sure, but it killed the noise and hiss.  :headbang:

 

[thebutcher85]

I forgot to mention that I use MXR pedals as well, a phase90, and the Zakk wylde OD.

 

[stubhead]

To add just a few more bits: You may already know how you're house is wired - good, bad or indifferent. And by fooling around you can probably reduce it to a manageable level. But Dear Dogs, if you ever go out THERE - festivals and private house parties and especially BARS - you're going to run into the most Mickey Rat rinky-dink quarter-assed electrical nightmares beyond.... well, just BEYOND.

Far more so than 10 or 15 years ago, you actually can get a fairly decent power strip at Radio Shack or a Big Box, they're in the computer department. You're looking for basic EMI and RFI filtering, surge protection, and especially, a long cord. Not just for convenience sakes but to get power transformers AWAY from your pickups. $25 or $30 will get you somewhere with these. But, drunks will stomp those plastic fellows, sooner or later. I have a couple of these in my kit (a spot of tea, anyone). One travels with me and the other stays in my trunk.
http://www.sweetwiter.com/store/detail/SS6Block/

But more than half the time, they both get used if we're playing as a four piece+. Thirty bucks, yup. And then you can click on the FURMAN logo and search "high-to-low" and poke through the $1,000+ Furmans. 32-track studio mixers do not take kindly to power surges.

 

[mayfly]

Hey Mully,

Can you get a video or some kind of recording of the noise?  Video might be better actually.

After stubs post I'm starting to wonder if the wall wart for your pedalboard supply is dumping enough EMI hash to be picked up by those pickups.  If that's the case, batteries may be in your future... or a better wall wart.

i just need to hear it.

 

[stubhead]

And ANOTHER Li'L Thang- After you've done everything above - and it can be a long process over time, so you don't spend your entire practice time dicking with this stuff, so you come to view your guitar as a massively-annoying chore... make yourself a rule about this - seriously - you'll allow yourself 20 minutes a day crawling around on the floor fussing (and we already know you ARE keeping a notebook on our settings, right?) :icon_thumright: :icon_thumright: Then it's straight to the amp until your brain gives out about MUSIC, not stompie li'l aggravating fleabiters.

I look at pedalboards in the magazines, and I have never, ever seen a pedalboard for hard rock or metal that DIDN'T have a noise suppressor/gate on it. And lots of even straight-ahead fatbody jazz guys & country guys often have them. You don't see them in a studio, cause the studio has $8,000 invested in this stuff.

 

[Cagey]

$8,000 worth of gimcrackery in a studio? What kind of fleabags do you hang around in, anyway? Most of the studios I've been in have that in cables <grin>

You're right about playing straight in, though. They can add in effects later, and they've always got a bajillion dollars worth of those.

 

[ZionWarmoth]

I just use de Decimator-G

 

[mullyman]

Thanks again for all the info, guys. When I plug straight into the amp, no pedal board, it's silent, as it should be. It's only when I go through the pedals that this hiss starts. I'll try all these things and see if I can get it sorted out. Cable upgrades is another thing I want to look into. Right now, my patch cables are the ones that you can pick up at any guitar shop. I never even thought about investing in better patch cables. My guitar cables are made by Monster.
MULLY

 

[thebutcher85]

Cable upgrades is another thing I want to look into. Right now, my patch cables are the ones that you can pick up at any guitar shop. I never even thought about investing in better patch cables. My guitar cables are made by Monster.
MULLY

The Monster cables should be fine, ( I use em and love em as well as the Mogami) upgrading to better patch cables would help a ton I suspect.

 

[mayfly]

Cable upgrades is another thing I want to look into. Right now, my patch cables are the ones that you can pick up at any guitar shop. I never even thought about investing in better patch cables. My guitar cables are made by Monster.
MULLY

The Monster cables should be fine, ( I use em and love em as well as the Mogami) upgrading to better patch cables would help a ton I suspect.

I would not spend any money on any upgrades until you find the source of the problem