I have been playing guitar since 1977, I dont read music or tab . I have, and have had many vintage and new guitars and in my opinion most (not all)of the older/vintage guitars were duds. Guitars now days are better (overall) made AND sound better than they ever have. Amps are another story. Most people dont agree with me but I know a few of old guys like myself that have been playing for decades that feel the same way.
New or old is better.
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While I greatly appreciate the vintage stuff, it's just not for me. Things wear and tend to malfunction as they get old, thats my biggest problem with vintage gear. I'm no amp tech and don't really want to be. It's different if you're the sole owner of the thing and you've always taken good care of your stuff. A lot of it is what you want to hear also. I've heard a lot of newer amplifiers that do a good job of recreating a vintage sound when set right and used with the right guitar.
ByteFrenzy
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I would guess quality and quality control was a lot more erratic forty or fifty years ago than it is today. If you put a 70's BMW on a dynamometer you could find significant differences in power from one individual car to another. I bet the same holds true for vintage guitars. Most were average, a few were exceptionally good and some were just plain junk. I would expect the really good ones to have moved into the posession of a lucky few many years ago, leaving just the duds for you and me to sample. That would lead you to the conclusion that vintage guitars were duds.
i think the vintage instruments are really most sought after simply because nobody's making them anymore! it's not nearly so exciting to say you have a 2009 SG Standard, but a 1970 SG is definitely going to attract some attention. i'll take new gear over vintage any day just simply because i think technology is better nowadays, and the expense for an old instrument is ridiculous when you look at the price of the same instrument made now.
I've gotten to play a decent amount of vintage guitars and in my experience he's absolutely right. Most of them either have serious QC issues, or have had so much done over the years that they've turned into duds. However I did play an SG from the early 70's that was quite simply the best guitar I've ever played. I've always been a strat guy but the salesman handed me that guitar to try out the amp I wanted to play. If i was the kind of guy with 13K to throw at a guitar I would've bought it immediately. If you find the right vintage guitar it'll outshine most of todays guitars, but for the price that you'll have to pay you might as well have a masterbuilt, or gibson custom shop edition that'll look and sound the same anyways.
TomPerverteau
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My Marshall has been pretty reliable. It's now worth 3 times what I paid for it, and it keeps gaining (no pun intended) value. + it kicks ass & screams.
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom
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I like the older, shorter, worn from use frets on older instruments. Newer, heavily glossed necks I don't much care for.
Whoa.... lets define "vintage" for a guy playing since 1977.
If you mean, you have guitars that you got in 1977, or really, from about 72ish on.... both Gibson and Fender... they suck. They really suck bad. They can be made to not-suck, but it takes some work, not much though. Into the 80's things got very bad. Very very bad. Gibson was down to just over sixty employees. Thats it. Sixty something. Thats production, finishing, testing, packaging, sales, management and the janitor. Things were hurtin' and Fender went offshore. From the late 80's things got better - to a degree. Fender got bought and Gibson too. Fender took about two years to get back into the swing. Gibson... longer. Folks say both are slipping again, and have been for the last decade or so.
There are some dud old guitars, but I think you'll find that most of the ones that are "real vintage" - 50's to late 60's are really very nice instruments, made when production involved more hands-on. Its the little things - the way the frets are dressed, the way the nut is installed, the way the pickups were wound... little things, but they made a big difference. Finishes were different too. Today, materials are used to maximize production - as they were back then - but the new materials are different. The days of Fullerplast are behind us, you might say. Tuners.... Grover has gone offshore and exists mostly as a name. Kluson is gone, then the name has been re-used. Etc etc.
That all aside - there are GREAT, no EXCELLENT guitars being made today, and being made by the folks on this board from Warmoth parts. Especially the necks. I'm not saying any idiot with a pin router can whittle out bodies all day along, but the art of things is evident when you get into the necks. Look at the consistency, the sheer quality, the evenness of the frets, how the nuts are installed (if they do it), the truss rods, the inlay, the finish work. I mean this is top shelf stuff they're offering. Just top shelf stuff, I can't over state that.
So yah, the best guitars are some that are rolling thru these pages from time to time and I have no doubt about the quality.
If you mean, you have guitars that you got in 1977, or really, from about 72ish on.... both Gibson and Fender... they suck. They really suck bad. They can be made to not-suck, but it takes some work, not much though. Into the 80's things got very bad. Very very bad. Gibson was down to just over sixty employees. Thats it. Sixty something. Thats production, finishing, testing, packaging, sales, management and the janitor. Things were hurtin' and Fender went offshore. From the late 80's things got better - to a degree. Fender got bought and Gibson too. Fender took about two years to get back into the swing. Gibson... longer. Folks say both are slipping again, and have been for the last decade or so.
There are some dud old guitars, but I think you'll find that most of the ones that are "real vintage" - 50's to late 60's are really very nice instruments, made when production involved more hands-on. Its the little things - the way the frets are dressed, the way the nut is installed, the way the pickups were wound... little things, but they made a big difference. Finishes were different too. Today, materials are used to maximize production - as they were back then - but the new materials are different. The days of Fullerplast are behind us, you might say. Tuners.... Grover has gone offshore and exists mostly as a name. Kluson is gone, then the name has been re-used. Etc etc.
That all aside - there are GREAT, no EXCELLENT guitars being made today, and being made by the folks on this board from Warmoth parts. Especially the necks. I'm not saying any idiot with a pin router can whittle out bodies all day along, but the art of things is evident when you get into the necks. Look at the consistency, the sheer quality, the evenness of the frets, how the nuts are installed (if they do it), the truss rods, the inlay, the finish work. I mean this is top shelf stuff they're offering. Just top shelf stuff, I can't over state that.
So yah, the best guitars are some that are rolling thru these pages from time to time and I have no doubt about the quality.
O
OzziePete
Guest
I agree a LOT with what =CB= has said above.
In the 70s when I started playing.... well... it's no wonder the 'vintage' market started up back then, because the new products from the manufacturers were horrible.
ALL the things that have since been proven in various brands to be the worst of, were made during that time (tbf, from the late 60s I guess). So I guess, out of the mere conicidence of being there at the wrong time, I have played a few of these 'fuglies'. And the criticisms were justified. Older guitars were better made. I still cannot reconcile myself to play a new Fender 3 bolt neck (reissue) guitar, even though today I am hoping they have worked out their factory manufacturing tolerances much better than back then. For Fender, when the new guys took over from CBS, they basically had to shut down operations in the USA for a good 18 months while they built a new factory, it was THAT bad. In the meantime, they used Japanese fcatories to build their stock, one of which I own & is good quality for what it is. It should never had amounted to that, but that's the way the multi nationals ran things when they all bought iconic brand names in the 60s (I believe Harley Davidson endured a similar story?). They sucked all the value they could out of the 'brand name' and never reinvested in capital expenditure or development unless it cut from their expense column to make more profit.
However, the big issue I have with 'vintage' guitars is also the same with me with vintage or collectible cars. Both items are depreciable. The best way to appreciate them is to use them, and everytime you use them, you are inflicting wear and tear on them. Sooner or later, an old car will need major work done on it as it racks up the mileage. Then when you have to replace the motor, gearbox or diff, you start losing the originality value aspect of your investment. And the same applies to vintage guitars and amps. The more you use them, the more you wear them down. Re Fret jobs would lose a lot of value in an old guitar, and power transformer, cap replacements in old amps would derive a similar devalue. But keep using them, and that's what will happen...... :dontknow:
Now, I guess you could buy yourself a 10 Top Dragon PRS, put it in a glass case and adopt a Nigel Tuffnell approach to it ('don't even look at it!')- and never play it beyond the odd strum. But how can you appreciate the workmanship that's been put into it? I mean, there's a point to all that work and that is to hear the damn thing playing, and as a player, it is to sit behind one of these great art works and see how it all feels. But in doing so you are one tiny step closer to that refret..... a real dilemma.
For the record, though, I have recently relented and will be soon going through the process of getting a one-off custom acoustic guitar built by Maton. It will cost me afair bit more than your average Maton, and even thoiugh I know that playing it will mean the odd scratch on the pickguard, and having to take it out of it's protective hard shell case and exposing it to elements, to hell with that as I want to play guitar! But then again, I don't think of it as an investment, it's more of a tribute kind of custom for me.
In the 70s when I started playing.... well... it's no wonder the 'vintage' market started up back then, because the new products from the manufacturers were horrible.
ALL the things that have since been proven in various brands to be the worst of, were made during that time (tbf, from the late 60s I guess). So I guess, out of the mere conicidence of being there at the wrong time, I have played a few of these 'fuglies'. And the criticisms were justified. Older guitars were better made. I still cannot reconcile myself to play a new Fender 3 bolt neck (reissue) guitar, even though today I am hoping they have worked out their factory manufacturing tolerances much better than back then. For Fender, when the new guys took over from CBS, they basically had to shut down operations in the USA for a good 18 months while they built a new factory, it was THAT bad. In the meantime, they used Japanese fcatories to build their stock, one of which I own & is good quality for what it is. It should never had amounted to that, but that's the way the multi nationals ran things when they all bought iconic brand names in the 60s (I believe Harley Davidson endured a similar story?). They sucked all the value they could out of the 'brand name' and never reinvested in capital expenditure or development unless it cut from their expense column to make more profit.
However, the big issue I have with 'vintage' guitars is also the same with me with vintage or collectible cars. Both items are depreciable. The best way to appreciate them is to use them, and everytime you use them, you are inflicting wear and tear on them. Sooner or later, an old car will need major work done on it as it racks up the mileage. Then when you have to replace the motor, gearbox or diff, you start losing the originality value aspect of your investment. And the same applies to vintage guitars and amps. The more you use them, the more you wear them down. Re Fret jobs would lose a lot of value in an old guitar, and power transformer, cap replacements in old amps would derive a similar devalue. But keep using them, and that's what will happen...... :dontknow:
Now, I guess you could buy yourself a 10 Top Dragon PRS, put it in a glass case and adopt a Nigel Tuffnell approach to it ('don't even look at it!')- and never play it beyond the odd strum. But how can you appreciate the workmanship that's been put into it? I mean, there's a point to all that work and that is to hear the damn thing playing, and as a player, it is to sit behind one of these great art works and see how it all feels. But in doing so you are one tiny step closer to that refret..... a real dilemma.
For the record, though, I have recently relented and will be soon going through the process of getting a one-off custom acoustic guitar built by Maton. It will cost me afair bit more than your average Maton, and even thoiugh I know that playing it will mean the odd scratch on the pickguard, and having to take it out of it's protective hard shell case and exposing it to elements, to hell with that as I want to play guitar! But then again, I don't think of it as an investment, it's more of a tribute kind of custom for me.
Except Fender didn't close the Fullterton plant because of quality issues. They "used" to make good stuff there, they still could... but at a price. The price was a lack of automation. The move was about 20 miles or so. They kept a lot of people, but also added a ton of people. They were going into guitar PRODUCTION in a new modern way. It was better, easier, cheaper.. to start with a clean slate.
The other thing was - Fender got sold, but it was the name "Fender" only and existing stocks. Buildings, machinery, hardware, etc, all got sold at auction. Thats how G&L got a lot of the old Fender machinery. Literally Leo went down and bid against Fender for the machinery he designed.
The other thing was - Fender got sold, but it was the name "Fender" only and existing stocks. Buildings, machinery, hardware, etc, all got sold at auction. Thats how G&L got a lot of the old Fender machinery. Literally Leo went down and bid against Fender for the machinery he designed.
O
OzziePete
Guest
=CB= said:
Uh, OK, I had heard it was to do with lack of investment by CBS during their tenure and the machinery was old and in need of either total refurbishment or replacement and it was easier to build a new factory. I think Leo Fender, spoke of increasing tolerances in the manufacturing process of guitars as the machines got older, or didn't get maintained to a high standard - particularly when defending the 3 bolt neck pocket design - in an interview with Guitar Player?
Either way, the stuff that was coming out of the Fender factory (whether it was from Fullerton or somewhere else) was not good enough in the 70s, and was partly to blame for the people looking at older guitars as better instruments and placing a premium on their value. I think the CBS/Fender people realised this was happening and did take steps to improve quality control, but by the early 80s the company was just about dusted with a bad reputation. The fact you now mention that Leo bought a lot of the old Fullerton machinery and then, using the same machinery, was able to produce better quality guitars than what Fender had produced just prior to the factory closure, or the years before - kinda speaks volumes about what was possibly happening at Fender under CBS.
I just don't think I'd ever buy a guitar from a "real" production line ever again. The more one uses musical instruments, the more refracted what one wants becomes it seems to me. Playing Fenders and Gibsons is useful in honing these preferences, but it seems like such an individual thing, to the point where using a standardized build on such an individual project as expression through sound feels to me like a square peg / round hole situation.
I guess to a certain extent they're merely tools for a craft, and the hands wielding them matter much more, but if I can spend the same amount of money and get a tool designed specifically for my hand, I feel like I'm rarely going to fight against the tool to get the desired result. To a certain extent merely the act of and effort involved in having it made just for me is a statement of intent and a commitment to myself that I'll always pick it up and use it whenever I have the time. When life is so short, it feels important to remind one self there are only so many hours of practice and striving for inspiration, so many breaths in and out, so many thrumming pumps of the heart, so many notes.
So slavish devotion to chasing the vintage dream seems like the opposite end of the spectrum of fetishization to me. I'm still as obsessive as some guy rebuilding a '62 Fuelie to strict NCRS museum-display specs, but it's focused much more on how I'll use the thing, instead of a strange need to stick everything everywhere in amber.
I guess to a certain extent they're merely tools for a craft, and the hands wielding them matter much more, but if I can spend the same amount of money and get a tool designed specifically for my hand, I feel like I'm rarely going to fight against the tool to get the desired result. To a certain extent merely the act of and effort involved in having it made just for me is a statement of intent and a commitment to myself that I'll always pick it up and use it whenever I have the time. When life is so short, it feels important to remind one self there are only so many hours of practice and striving for inspiration, so many breaths in and out, so many thrumming pumps of the heart, so many notes.
So slavish devotion to chasing the vintage dream seems like the opposite end of the spectrum of fetishization to me. I'm still as obsessive as some guy rebuilding a '62 Fuelie to strict NCRS museum-display specs, but it's focused much more on how I'll use the thing, instead of a strange need to stick everything everywhere in amber.
bpmorton777
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Id have to say that the fenders made in the "dark days" of the 80's in Japan were some of the best guitars they ever made.
Brian
Brian
Superbeast520
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It is absolutely true that the quality and production that is coming out of Warmoth and the guitars being built right here on this site are Top Shelf and without a doubt....the materials used and the craftsmanship coming off the line is the best that is offered in a production setting bar none.
Thats not to say there isn't other equally great companies building great stuff, but all a guy has to do is look at the day to day consistency of the quality that is coming out of here to know it dosn't get better than this. What strikes me as odd is how little resale a self made Warmoth Guitar fetches on the street, most of the vintage or older Fenders out there are pure crap from a quality stand point compared to the stuff being built today.
I can't even get myself to even seriously consider buying a production guitar no matter what kind of resale value it has. Its true I could buy 2 Fenders for the price of one Warmoth I will build, but there isn't a Fender made that has all the specs and attention to detail I want without spending Damn near double the price of my Warmoth, and even then I still find it falling so short of details for the price, that I can't even consider it without feeling plagued by guilt knowing how much more I could've gotten for my money, and all because I got shafted over a Sticker on the headstock.
I love Fender and the Strat, but the Capitalism that runs the system will never allow me to look their way again.
That being said....all it takes is to build One Warmoth and the above question will be answered in your heart and mind.
Thats not to say there isn't other equally great companies building great stuff, but all a guy has to do is look at the day to day consistency of the quality that is coming out of here to know it dosn't get better than this. What strikes me as odd is how little resale a self made Warmoth Guitar fetches on the street, most of the vintage or older Fenders out there are pure crap from a quality stand point compared to the stuff being built today.
I can't even get myself to even seriously consider buying a production guitar no matter what kind of resale value it has. Its true I could buy 2 Fenders for the price of one Warmoth I will build, but there isn't a Fender made that has all the specs and attention to detail I want without spending Damn near double the price of my Warmoth, and even then I still find it falling so short of details for the price, that I can't even consider it without feeling plagued by guilt knowing how much more I could've gotten for my money, and all because I got shafted over a Sticker on the headstock.
I love Fender and the Strat, but the Capitalism that runs the system will never allow me to look their way again.
That being said....all it takes is to build One Warmoth and the above question will be answered in your heart and mind.
Nightclub Dwight
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+1 to what =CB= said.
Its important to make a distinction between vintage and what George Gruhn calls "the golden age" instruments. Just because something is old, it is not necessarily good.
According to Gruhn, "The pieces most sought by collectors are pre-World War II flat top acoustic guitars by Martin, Gibson, the Larson Brothers of Chicago, and Lyon & Healy of Chicago as well as archtop acoustic jazz guitars made through the 1960's by Gibson, Epiphone, D'Angelico, and Stromberg. The golden era for collectible electric guitars was the 1950's through mid 1960's."
From today's perspective, a 1970's guitar seems vintage--but to those of us who experienced them the first time around it is still garbage. So to take a generic term like "vintage guitar" and make a broad judgement that they are over rated, or over valued, or whatever is really missing the point about why people started seeking out certain vintage instruments in the first place.
When I started playing guitar in the sixth grade in 1980 at the dawn of the MTV era, the holy grail of vintage guitars--a 1959 Les Paul Standard--was only 21 years old. To me at the time, 1959 seemed such distant history that it all must have happened in black and white back then I thought. Right after I got out of high school I bought a 1960 Les Paul Junior from a friend. I have now owned that instrument for a longer period of time then the period from 1959 to when I started playing.
My Junior looks, sounds, and plays fantastic and was the smartest $500 I ever spent in my life. I love that guitar and it has given me a lot of pleasure over the years.
But, +1 to what OzziePete said about depreciation and wear and tear. My other hobby is collecting vintage bicycles. Mostly racing bikes from the 40's and 50's, but some others as well. Bike collectors face the same problems as guitar collectors; do I use my vintage piece and enjoy it for its performance and character while I slowly degrade the mechanics with every pedal revolution, or do I keep it polished and waxed behind a glass case for posterity?
Depends on what your intended use is, be it a bicycle or a guitar. If I was going on tour across country I'd definitely bring new stuff, but if I was enjoying the piece on a leisurely weekend afternoon I'd like to get out the old steel and crank 'er up.
So..... +1 with the OP too who says "Guitars now days are better (overall) made AND sound better than they ever have." Overall--for production guitars at least--I agree with this. Our modern technology enables a caring manufacturer to produce a tool to much higher tolerances than in the past. Additionally, since the internet has revolutionized the way we communicate and spread information, there is a lot more attention to niche markets such as "vintage" or "tone freaks" or what have you. When I was a kid a lot of this info was just hearsay passed verbally from one enthusiast to another, so there was a lot of confusion, mis-information, and even some outright scams. But these days there are manufacturers (like Warmoth) who exist solely to satisfy these niche markets.
A lot of it boils down to the manufacturing process itself. Today, there are probably more small custom handmade builders and manufacturers than at any other time in history, so our present era may well be recognized as an additional "golden era" sometime in the future. But by and large the bigger manufacturers all use automated processes to reach their production goals. Although these modern manufacturing techniques allow the tighter tolerances, more consistent finishes etc. that yield wonderful consumer level products, they do lack the personality that comes from a truly handmade work of art.
And that might be the key difference. Instruments made in the "golden era", or bicycles made before about 1964, transcend being a mere tool and due to their individual personalities may well become brilliant works of art in and of themselves.
I'll close with one more quote from George Gruhn, "Collectible instruments may be appreciated as beautiful visual art, important pieces of history, technological marvels, acoustical wonders, and great investments. I can think of no other form of art which can be appreciated on so many different levels."
*George Gruhn quotes lifted from Collecting Vintage Musical Instruments by Gruhn http://www.gruhn.com/articles/collect.html
ps...I will not collect anything unless I can use it, be it guitar, bicycle, fountain pen or watch. I love my vintage wood and steel!
Its important to make a distinction between vintage and what George Gruhn calls "the golden age" instruments. Just because something is old, it is not necessarily good.
According to Gruhn, "The pieces most sought by collectors are pre-World War II flat top acoustic guitars by Martin, Gibson, the Larson Brothers of Chicago, and Lyon & Healy of Chicago as well as archtop acoustic jazz guitars made through the 1960's by Gibson, Epiphone, D'Angelico, and Stromberg. The golden era for collectible electric guitars was the 1950's through mid 1960's."
From today's perspective, a 1970's guitar seems vintage--but to those of us who experienced them the first time around it is still garbage. So to take a generic term like "vintage guitar" and make a broad judgement that they are over rated, or over valued, or whatever is really missing the point about why people started seeking out certain vintage instruments in the first place.
When I started playing guitar in the sixth grade in 1980 at the dawn of the MTV era, the holy grail of vintage guitars--a 1959 Les Paul Standard--was only 21 years old. To me at the time, 1959 seemed such distant history that it all must have happened in black and white back then I thought. Right after I got out of high school I bought a 1960 Les Paul Junior from a friend. I have now owned that instrument for a longer period of time then the period from 1959 to when I started playing.
My Junior looks, sounds, and plays fantastic and was the smartest $500 I ever spent in my life. I love that guitar and it has given me a lot of pleasure over the years.
But, +1 to what OzziePete said about depreciation and wear and tear. My other hobby is collecting vintage bicycles. Mostly racing bikes from the 40's and 50's, but some others as well. Bike collectors face the same problems as guitar collectors; do I use my vintage piece and enjoy it for its performance and character while I slowly degrade the mechanics with every pedal revolution, or do I keep it polished and waxed behind a glass case for posterity?
Depends on what your intended use is, be it a bicycle or a guitar. If I was going on tour across country I'd definitely bring new stuff, but if I was enjoying the piece on a leisurely weekend afternoon I'd like to get out the old steel and crank 'er up.
So..... +1 with the OP too who says "Guitars now days are better (overall) made AND sound better than they ever have." Overall--for production guitars at least--I agree with this. Our modern technology enables a caring manufacturer to produce a tool to much higher tolerances than in the past. Additionally, since the internet has revolutionized the way we communicate and spread information, there is a lot more attention to niche markets such as "vintage" or "tone freaks" or what have you. When I was a kid a lot of this info was just hearsay passed verbally from one enthusiast to another, so there was a lot of confusion, mis-information, and even some outright scams. But these days there are manufacturers (like Warmoth) who exist solely to satisfy these niche markets.
A lot of it boils down to the manufacturing process itself. Today, there are probably more small custom handmade builders and manufacturers than at any other time in history, so our present era may well be recognized as an additional "golden era" sometime in the future. But by and large the bigger manufacturers all use automated processes to reach their production goals. Although these modern manufacturing techniques allow the tighter tolerances, more consistent finishes etc. that yield wonderful consumer level products, they do lack the personality that comes from a truly handmade work of art.
And that might be the key difference. Instruments made in the "golden era", or bicycles made before about 1964, transcend being a mere tool and due to their individual personalities may well become brilliant works of art in and of themselves.
I'll close with one more quote from George Gruhn, "Collectible instruments may be appreciated as beautiful visual art, important pieces of history, technological marvels, acoustical wonders, and great investments. I can think of no other form of art which can be appreciated on so many different levels."
*George Gruhn quotes lifted from Collecting Vintage Musical Instruments by Gruhn http://www.gruhn.com/articles/collect.html
ps...I will not collect anything unless I can use it, be it guitar, bicycle, fountain pen or watch. I love my vintage wood and steel!
dudesweet157
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I am very fortunate to be on quite good terms with my guitar tech. He deals in a LOT of vintage guitars/amps that never see the showroom in his shop (he does most of his business on ebay). However, if he has a piece in he thinks I'll like, he'll pull it out and let me play it. In my experience, all guitars that lack major issues (warped neck, etc.) can be set up to play beautifully. Every guitar I've played in his shop has played great, including entry level Squiers and Epiphones and 70's era Fenders and Gibsons. Tone is a bit more subjective, but as long as a pickup isn't wound overly hot, I can find some tones I like in it via pickup height adjustment and amp settings. I agree with the statement that some guitars are just magical, but after a proper setup, fret dressing, and nut job, any guitar can be good.
mayfly
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From my own experience,
Anything american made in the 70's or early 80's was pretty crappy with the exception of Rickenbacker. This is one of the reasons why I got into them.
Guitars that I've played that are older than this were either worn right out, or were pretty nice. I've played some nice 50's Gretsch (did I spell that right?) guitars. Very nice instruments. The 50's Les Pauls, strats, and teles that I played were all pretty much worn right out.
Of all of these, the warmoth guitars that I have made are the best guitars that I have ever played. :icon_thumright:
Anything american made in the 70's or early 80's was pretty crappy with the exception of Rickenbacker. This is one of the reasons why I got into them.
Guitars that I've played that are older than this were either worn right out, or were pretty nice. I've played some nice 50's Gretsch (did I spell that right?) guitars. Very nice instruments. The 50's Les Pauls, strats, and teles that I played were all pretty much worn right out.
Of all of these, the warmoth guitars that I have made are the best guitars that I have ever played. :icon_thumright:
guys, any truth to the claim that over a period of time (years) the paint is absorbed by the wood and the guitar resonates/sounds better? or about "aging" of wood?
my 2 cents here is that older guitars have a more "played/broken in" feel to them and so are quite comfortable to play. but the oldest guitars i have are from the mid 80s (japanese washburn 335 clone) and early 90s (gibson les paul studio lite).
though technology can improve over time, sometimes the creativity/beauty/genius of a hand made item simply cannot be beat. so technology is a double edged sword imo.
my 2 cents here is that older guitars have a more "played/broken in" feel to them and so are quite comfortable to play. but the oldest guitars i have are from the mid 80s (japanese washburn 335 clone) and early 90s (gibson les paul studio lite).
though technology can improve over time, sometimes the creativity/beauty/genius of a hand made item simply cannot be beat. so technology is a double edged sword imo.
whitebison66
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When Gibson and Fender decided to expand into the Japanese market in the 1980s, all they had to do was send over decals (Fender) and headplates (Gibson). The Japanese had been making dead-nuts copies already, so it was easy to switch. Part of the reason Japanese guitars took over in the 1980s was that they were better made and they offered options that F&G didn't, not just in shapes and colors, but pickups, etc. Kirk Hammett said that he went with ESP because he kept giving them designs for things he was sure they couldn't/wouldn't do, and then he'd get the guitar two weeks later. Japanese QC is frightening; every time I'm in Ochanomizu I just stare at the ESPs, looking for flaws, and I can't find them. Of course, I can't afford one either. But at least I'd feel like I got my $'s worth much more than I would with Gibson.
I think automation has improved quality, and I think that pragmatically, poly finishes are better. Assuming (!) a guitar is designed for a working musician, durability and reliability ought to take at least a little precedence over tone perfection. I'd rather have a reliable guitar and amp that can take a lot of abuse and maintain its structural integrity.
Another thing I always figured was that 90% of the audience thinks that a Sprague Orange Drop is some kind of drink, and even if they knew the truth they wouldn't care. Joe Blow is not interested in where and when your tubes were manufactured. So I wasn't about to spend twice/three times as much on gear for what I felt would be no return. Especially since I know my playing will never merit the necessity for top dollar gear.
As for the age thing, there is supposedly a molecular change that vibration causes in wood through repeated use (i.e. over a couple decades). You can actually have the Gibson custom shop vibrate the guitar for you without relicing, I've been told. The same person told me you can set your guitar on a subwoofer for 24 hours or so and achieve similar results.
I think automation has improved quality, and I think that pragmatically, poly finishes are better. Assuming (!) a guitar is designed for a working musician, durability and reliability ought to take at least a little precedence over tone perfection. I'd rather have a reliable guitar and amp that can take a lot of abuse and maintain its structural integrity.
Another thing I always figured was that 90% of the audience thinks that a Sprague Orange Drop is some kind of drink, and even if they knew the truth they wouldn't care. Joe Blow is not interested in where and when your tubes were manufactured. So I wasn't about to spend twice/three times as much on gear for what I felt would be no return. Especially since I know my playing will never merit the necessity for top dollar gear.
As for the age thing, there is supposedly a molecular change that vibration causes in wood through repeated use (i.e. over a couple decades). You can actually have the Gibson custom shop vibrate the guitar for you without relicing, I've been told. The same person told me you can set your guitar on a subwoofer for 24 hours or so and achieve similar results.
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